Seriously? I had >70% winrate with medusa when she had around 40% winrate. I have >55% WR with WR, who was utter shit, which was not played in tournaments for years and winrate was around 42%. At the same time, I could never win a game with venomancer, even when it was green cancer.
You have me envious there Talker with your comment, you don't get the feeling that the game controls what you can only do? That drafting controls what you can only do? You are that good that you ignore the game's rules and you set it. You should write a guide.
You mixed party ranked into it. And you can't know the MMR by winrate unless you know when and how much he calibrated.
eg. I can calibrate at 1k MMR then rekt my whole way through.(with no counter drafting) Then I get 70% winrate or sth but to be at 3k MMR.
The acc hasn't played dota for half an year. Most of its games are party too. When it's active again it started playing solo ranked and float around High Skill.
The more you look into it, the more suspicious this acc is. It's inconsistent.
Taking a second look at his account again, https://www.dotabuff.com/players/317971715/matches?date=6month&enhance=overview, 4 days ago his Slark went 19 kills 5 deaths, looking back even further, 9 days ago his Morphling went 20 kills 10 deaths, if it's really a boosted account then why don't I see any signs of it? I am not even sure why we are talking about this, like I said before, you ignored my past comments that have utterly destroyed you because you don't like admitting you are wrong, you are looking for other ways to put yourself in the right and you shame yourself further.
I edited that comment again, my unedited comment was me telling you that he only played 10 solo ranked games and only won 4, though that's only Dotabuff being not accurate when you filter solo queue ranked games.
He was top networth Medusa in his team but his damage output is same as his pudge that alone is enough to know he's not performing well.
But that's not all, I just can't imagine how Pudge+Jak VS Riki+Undying can lose the lane so hard.
Not to mention with a DP they only managed to take 2 towers? What the fuck?
It's not the draft in this game. Both draft are equally bad.
Then it comes down to DO THE PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PLAY THIS GAME, which is skill.
here's a thing yeah the draft phase might affect your winning, but the most impact to winning is skill
a lot of 4k players didnt the right time when to farm, gank, or even back
the axe in your match didnt know tha right time to initiate you
he didnt have patient to do that
It's a High Skill game for a VHS player. Getting 20/10 isn't even impressive. And worse, he lost the game as a farmed up pos 1.
I've seen acc buyers. And I'm not emphasizing he is one. I'm just saying this guy haven't played dota for half an year, and suddenly he stopped playing party games and started solo queue. Even if he isn't an acc buyer, he is gonna perform worse than his usual.
"a lot of 4k players didnt the right time when to farm, gank, or even back" "here's a thing yeah the draft phase might affect your winning, but the most impact to winning is skill"
How can skill have an impact to winning? I am an ancient player, playing against an ancient player, which puts me on the same skill level as him, when playing against players with equal skill, the only real advantage you can gain is drafting advantage.
And like you said, Axe doesn't want to get kited by you. What he does? He gets an SB for better initiation on you. Yeah sure that can be countered by having detection. But you can't have detection everywhere. And that's your team's job too.
So the tides turned, your so called "Sniper counters Axe" is now "Axe counters Sniper".
He did everything he could. He has the highest damage output despite having a "Sniper counter Axe" game.
Doesn't seem like he was countered.
"But that's not all, I just can't imagine how Pudge+Jak VS Riki+Undying can lose the lane so hard.
Not to mention with a DP they only managed to take 2 towers? What the fuck?"
I already explained this in the previous page of comments can you read? Those heroes don't have a "sure" way of beating Sniper, Pudge hook is hard to land long range, and Axe needs Blink Dagger or Shadow Blade and Blademail to kill me, but since I am Sniper, he can't get those items in time, so I am free to farm, get gold and do Sniper things, while he's still busy getting items, and by the time he got those items already, I only need to be wary of the possibility of him blinking on me and he can't get a good call in, I didn't do it in that game, but you can hide your Sniper's presence in clash by simply not showing up and hiding behind a tree or standing on high ground and not attacking, this will force Axe to initiate on other teammates, that's when Sniper shows up,
See that Sniper, if putting the same effort as Axe, has an advantage.
No one sends Jak and Pudge to gank Sniper, all Pudge needs to do, is try to zone one of the lanes. Just stay there and make sure nobody can't walk too close to Axe, or maybe go try killing lvl1 Timber with Jak. Then they can't get rekt in lanes. They will only get rekt when they overcommit and fail.
I only need to be wary of the possibility of him blinking on me and he can't get a good call in, I didn't do it in that game, but you can hide your Sniper's presence in clash by simply not showing up and hiding behind a tree or standing on high ground and not attacking, this will force Axe to initiate on other teammates, that's when Sniper shows up,
That's where skill comes to play. No one should commit a fight until Sniper is found.
Axe should always focus and wait on you, his teammates are tanky enough to take a few hits and fight head on.
They have a farmed Medusa and a DP. Without your Sniper damage, they should win. But Medusa gets a Maelstrom and is paper, so she can't take the front? That's why the item's a bad choice. Medusa has split shot to farm and fight, getting Maelstrom in this meta is just stupid.
Pudge gets a Force+ Spirit Vessel instead of Blink or Aether to try dealing with you.
These are the ways to "counter" your Sniper. Dota is a game with 5v5 heroes each with 6 slots.
The fact that there are legit initiators who can buy Blink should be a counter to Sniper.
You are making it look all so easy with that comment, you are just too ignorant of what counterpicking can do, this is Ancient vs Ancient, but you are telling them to play like a divine pub, no you are telling them to play like an organized Divine 5 man stack, my argument is that in a game of EQUALLY SKILLED players, picking is what matters most of the time and playing matters only a little. It's not fair that you are telling them to play like a divine, please tell me and my team to play like a divine too to make it fair dota.
It doesn't matter if they are organized, their draft has a lot of weakness and little flexibility, it's not Leshrac Sand King, it's fucking Pudge and Axe, both heroes most of the time unpicked and unbanned. They didn't pick right and it's equal skill, no boosters for fair game, we have draft advantage and we will win using much much less effort and mechanical skill, we make mistakes and they will hardly comeback, we will heavily punish them for not picking right.
"Pudge gets a Force+ Spirit Vessel instead of Blink or Aether to try dealing with you."
Blink has no components for buildup, and Force Staff can push his team out of Shrapnel, we have a Dragon Knight and Timbersaw, Spirit Vessel helps more.
i didnt reallly read the wall of texts here,but if you really want that axe to jump on you that axe can just go in later then wait for you to his range/try to not to take fights where he can't jump on you/use trees to get closer on you
if sharpnel is a problem he can also get hod+active/bkb then force+dagger instead by having lotsa of monies and not probably dying on unnecesary teamfight
or,he could wreck his lane by pulling since you're using riki support+undying and sniper has 0 base dmg to lasthit on tower,nor to tank creeps
then he'll be richer than anyone of you,gets dag in 7-10m with vg and bullies you
not saying counter picks doesnt matter,it matters and has a huge impact (especially sniper>medu) but there's ways that you can deal with them
Thinking about it, what you said in your comment would make their team play worse.
" all Pudge needs to do, is try to zone one of the lanes. Just stay there and make sure nobody can't walk too close to Axe"
I am a sniper and I have a gun do I need to walk close?
"or maybe go try killing lvl1 Timber with Jak"
You are not even showing confidence if that's the right thing to do.
"That's where skill comes to play. No one should commit a fight until Sniper is found. "
Can you recall any experience in Dota 2 ordinary pubgame, whereas the team did not commit until a hero is found? And all Sniper has to do anyways is position himself where he won't get the attention, Dragon Knight and Timbersaw getting all the focus of the entire team without much effort, DK doing DK things and Timber doing Timber things, easily done unconsciously in pubgames without pre planning.
Matchmaking tries its best to make 2 teams of 5 players, who the system believes have equal chance of winning. now the players are not all actually at the same skill, It might differ a bit (probably up to 20% higher skilled if no booster involved). But Picks can be ALOT better than just 20%.
My point is, It is about the skills, but with this number of heroes, Obviously picks are going to matter and can even be decisive considering every one of the 10 players has the same skill. There is nothing wrong with it, and Nobody can control this (otherwise They'd make only 1 hero)
"not saying counter picks doesnt matter,it matters and has a huge impact (especially sniper>medu) but there's ways that you can deal with them"
And there are ways for sniper to deal with them too, axe tries to do this? Then Sniper only needs to do this.
"i didnt reallly read the wall of texts here"
Oh you should because I will be endlessly repeating the same thing over and over again if no one bothers to read everything I said, and I have to repeat the same wall of texts over and over again.
"if sharpnel is a problem he can also get hod+active/bkb then force+dagger instead by having lotsa of monies and not probably dying on unnecesary teamfight. "
Where the fuck does he get that much farm when shrapnel is the problem, jungle is dead poor farm, and Axe can't get much out of lane farm because of shrapnel and Sniper's innate high range.
"or,he could wreck his lane by pulling since you're using riki support+undying and sniper has 0 base dmg to lasthit on tower,nor to tank creeps "
You don't need 2 supports, just undying alone is enough, you are divine so you know what Undy can do to Axe, he saps Axe's strength from midrange without getting close and his zombies don't die to counter helix and slows Axe down to a crawl, you know that the slow from multiple zombies can stack, one zombie is a 7% slow, but five zombies is a 35% slow, Axe's 2 supports Pudge and Jakiro have slow attack speeds, and Undying can place the tombstone where they can't commit to destroying the tomb or else they will die. Sniper 0 dmg to lasthit on tower? Sniper is the one in control of the lane and decides the creep equilibrium since Axe and the 2 supports can't do shit to him, undying will fuck them up, shrapnel will fuck them up they have no way of dodging it unlike Mirana leap or PA's blink.
undy won't be able to do anything to axe at lvl 1
i just pull wave at :47 and repeat that at :17 you won't be able to get any farm,also i'll be lvl 2-3 before undy gets that levels,and you will be low on hp/missing precious lasthits because i force you to lh on tower
axe farms really fast when he wins his lane actually,and yes i didn't read the wall of texts and i dont force you to go to explain all 129310231 stuffs that you say,dw
if you are saying "axe tries to do this and sniper tries do this" then it's just 9k level already,you do your planstuffs vs an enemy
if your plan is broken by the enemy,you lose then. don't make your enemy know what you gonna do and how the hell you can know what i was going to do actually
i'm not talking anything about pudge/jakiro too btw,i hate relying on teammates,so i kinda picture it as a me as a solo offlaner
it's bad in parties,worse in pubs. would probably take it when i know its better me going 2 or 3
for example,on that game where that axe fails his lane.and i got a dag+bm and i know i can make you a food
i would not jump,and just really really wait the perfect moment to jump on you
a pos 3 shutting down enemy's pos 1,which counters my medusa on teamfights
would take that deal everytime
it's like you're silencer,and you're the only enigma counter
you save your ult till he casts his bh,not on some random stuff
"There is nothing wrong with it, and Nobody can control this (otherwise They'd make only 1 hero)"
Dota 2's game design is far from the best, look at this upcoming MOBA game which is a based on a wc3 map https://riseofwinterchill.com/
The game is the ultimate in MOBA design
Hero Flexibility and Complexity, every hero can stand to any other hero in the game provided the player has the skill, while all heroes more complex than your Dota 2's boringly simple low skill ceiling heroes such as Sven and Dragon Knight, better RoW's 30 flexible, complex and three dimensional heroes than Dota 2's around 100 heroes, 90% of Dota 2's heroes being one dimensional and situational picks, only played to counter a hero, while only 10% are flexible and hard to counter.
Feachairu if you are playing against a Divine sniper and Undy, players equal your skill level, can you still do those things easily? Not to mention you are playing against a Timber which counters you even harder than Sniper is, in midgame, Timber can pickup a euls and render your call and blademail useless, Timber has slow attack speed and thus harder to kill using Axe, Axe's call can only force Timber to use his normal attacks, and not force Timber to use his skills.
I looked at your Axe games https://www.dotabuff.com/players/164148112/matches?hero=axe 41.67% winrate on Axe with only 12 games? You are just all talk, you haven't even fought a Sniper and Undying using Axe yet so how do you know for sure that you can beat them when you struggle badly against other heroes.
Then you must have an other account then that shows you your amazing axe skills.
"i just pull wave at :47 and repeat that at :17 you won't be able to get any farm" - Feachairu
So good at Axe that you can "wreck the lane of sniper+undy" alone and on first try too, I left Riki out because the average ancient Riki player is not that stupid enough to try to zone out Axe using Riki and would go offlane instead.
The mention 6 slots is important as it illustrates how decision making remains of utmost importance throughout the game, not just during drafting. Dota has always favored informed decisions over 'twitchy skill' (I consider it a core principle), and the majority of encounters rely on some form of preemptive action. This can be seen in warding, epicenter, glimpse, shadowblade, powershot, exorcism, quite easily, but also is present when one purchases silver edge against bristle, halberd against huskar, and orchid against weaver.
Drafting is absolutely important, but it is just the beginning of smart preemptive decision making that permeates every facet of Dota. Players who have better knowledge during a game are much more likely to overcome drafting odds as they can identify when and where problems will arise, and how to address them. It seems the Axe you speak of did not understand his hero potential well enough to capitalize on positioning, but I'm a bit surprised you aren't more proud of your own preemptive actions to gain advantage. I'm even more surprised that you don't see them as an example of a situation that was NOT won or lost primarily by drafting.
So no, I wouldn't say Dota is 75% drafting. It's 75% information and planning throughout, 25% execution. On the surface that might sound similar, but I think it's a pretty important difference. If I wanted a game that is more 'twitchy' I would play League, where last time I played, there were almost no channel times for anything--it was almost universally instant casts.
On the subject of balancing the game for the majority, I would assume that would produce a mass exodus from pubbers and pros alike. Balancing the game with a high skill ceiling intent means players feel like there is always room to grow. The endless complexity and possibility is why many of us Dota players stick with the game. Any complaints that a hero is 'overpowered' is negated by a slew of items, teamwork, and focus options that better players can demonstrate. Those options wouldn't exist if the game were, let's be honest about what we are talking about here, simplified.
That's just me though, and my preferences. Good luck out there bro!
axe is just too strong of a hero atm,i just picture things out and i did tried him (that dotabuff page isn't updated) on this meta.
i'm not saying i'm a good axe player,i'm actually bad at him
but you really can destroy that kind of lane with some offlane knowledge,especially with axe
ye i kinda suspected riki would go off from wat you saying,he won't be able to touch axe anyw
haHaHA the ENDLESS COMPLEXITY AND POSSIBILITY OF DOTA he says
"Internet people arguing over personal opinions. Classic but still sad"
But the difference is that I argue using facts, I use references and the people talking to me use none, everyone somehow believes that an Axe can just git gud and beat Sniper in a lane using only technical and mechanical skill, then why is it that Axe is unpicked and unbanned in pro games? Pros can just git gud git gud on Axe and win right? Wait did I just use a reference? That none of you all seem to do? Like this Feachairu, talks big on what he can do with axe but has nothing to prove that. In the example I gave, I last picked a Sniper vs Axe Death Prophet Medusa right? What if I last picked a Troll Warlord? Would I still stand a chance of winning? At least Sniper can win the lane even if he can't survive a blademail call, but Troll can't win the lane and also can't survive a blademail call, if a Troll is fighting an Axe on equal skill, no boosters, then Troll will predictably and boringly lose the lane and then rest of the game also because Troll is an easy target for Jakiro's Ice Path and can't outrange a Medusa.
from my knowledge that's literally the only way to win the lane tho,a ancient 2 or divine sniper won't be able to actually understands you pull enemy wave to enemy bounty too so the waves meet and you contest axe there(this sometimes doesnt work also) or just clear the wave asap so tower will kill your own wave while axe is busy pulling
and if he's just tanking/tries to lh in tower axe 100% won that lane already
wat can undy do,decay+tombstone while i'm running pulling waves
tombstone lvl 1 is really bad too
if you got a good technical and mechanical skills,it's natural for people to get higher medals/mmr then? since you can beat your enemies
err,axe is definitely picked alot on pro games now. am i missing something
again,i could show you(to add the fact factor) if you wan,only on the lane factor tho
"wat can undy do,decay+tombstone while i'm running pulling waves"
Then I also only need to pull the lane too, until we have 3 waves of creeps vs 3 waves of creeps, think you have the advantage since there's that many creeps that Axe can use? Think again because it still won't solve your Shrapnel problem and having lots of creeps hitting you would make you drop health fast and predictably die like the endless possibility and complexity of this game is before you can farm half of them all. You know the only possibilty to win against Sniper, get a Tusk support and ride on his snowball to Sniper then call, you need to pick right in this game, picking matters more than playing well. A booster if picking wrong would only get a 55% winrate at his best, and almost 100% if picking right.
so if u dont want hero picked affect the result of the game then everygame
when u play with ur equal skill player will end up with draw result? lol stupid
"so if u dont want hero picked affect the result of the game"
NO, if dota 2 is supposed to be the best competitive game with the highest prize pool then it should be 25% picking and 75% playing, not 75% picking and 25% playing. See that picking affects the game, but not so much that it almost guarantees a win or lose.
uh i definitely don't want to get hit by 3 waves of creeps while i'm just having a boot as a first item,pulling is just for exp/gold
yeah,like what i say you can just pull the wave from your safelane by letting your waves die and go to enemy bounty+contest them there
most people won't think that though,and that's what i call a better skills/game knowledge.which you can use to outplay your opposition
(playing)
i'm not defending axe side and that radiant has a chance of winning or something,that depends on how they exchange fights/farm/etc etc
i'm not on that level where i can predict what will happen on teamfights/push
me just talking about offlane,er and yes you don't really need tuskar on your lane (or you talking on teamfights?)
hey op if im ancient 1 and youre ancient 1 means we're both equally skilled at dota 2? most flawed logic ive ever seen..skill is not quantitative and objective and that applies especially to a game with multiple complexities and several input factors....even if you and i had 100% win rate on 1 hero it no where near implies that we are equally skilled at that hero because every single game that you and I played on that hero is different
so your argument is inherently flawed
also drafting will only guarantee a win or lose if you draft badly in which case you do in fact deserve to lose
If you are an Ench or WW main, you will lose more than you win even if you play well, because it's not a right pick. Picking is not just to counterpicking, it's also meta hero picking, if you want to win, you have to play the hero the game wants you too.
meanwhile WW is the only hero i win my ranked games with. :)
I get your point. Picking is super important when all players are on the same skill level aka most solo ranked games.
But it is definetly not 75% of the game. There are games that are already lost in picking phase for sure but it is not everything. When people ask what to pick i always tell them "What you can play best" and mention some heros that are good in that situation in my opinion. I rather have a rikki spammer with 500+ games playing his rikki offlane than him playing his 2 games timbersaw even if it would be the best pick here.
Also if you play a hero often you know the counters and you know how to play around them.
He lost the Morphling game in High Skill yo
What kind of VHS player loses in High skill as a farmed up pos 1?
When you are miracle- playing with your 4 herald friends game will be normal skill. He can still loose it because enemy will have midone with his 4 herald friends. Wtf is your point.
Finding Sniper in fights is common knowledge, doesnt take a Divine to know that.
About Pudge, I can't be confident he can kill Timber but if he did that, he will give Timber a hard time but I guess he didn't, your Timber is pretty happy in lane.
I just need you to answer both of these
1. If Axe is so countered by your Sniper, why is he doing better than the rest of his team? Shouldn't he be choking?
2. Farmed Medusa 3/5 with same damage as Pudge? How good is he?
The game is not decided in draft... Does draft impact they game? yeah but there's no way draft is 75% of the game i don't think you know what you're talking about.
Seriously? I had >70% winrate with medusa when she had around 40% winrate. I have >55% WR with WR, who was utter shit, which was not played in tournaments for years and winrate was around 42%. At the same time, I could never win a game with venomancer, even when it was green cancer.
You have me envious there Talker with your comment, you don't get the feeling that the game controls what you can only do? That drafting controls what you can only do? You are that good that you ignore the game's rules and you set it. You should write a guide.
You mixed party ranked into it. And you can't know the MMR by winrate unless you know when and how much he calibrated.
eg. I can calibrate at 1k MMR then rekt my whole way through.(with no counter drafting) Then I get 70% winrate or sth but to be at 3k MMR.
The acc hasn't played dota for half an year. Most of its games are party too. When it's active again it started playing solo ranked and float around High Skill.
The more you look into it, the more suspicious this acc is. It's inconsistent.
Taking a second look at his account again, https://www.dotabuff.com/players/317971715/matches?date=6month&enhance=overview, 4 days ago his Slark went 19 kills 5 deaths, looking back even further, 9 days ago his Morphling went 20 kills 10 deaths, if it's really a boosted account then why don't I see any signs of it? I am not even sure why we are talking about this, like I said before, you ignored my past comments that have utterly destroyed you because you don't like admitting you are wrong, you are looking for other ways to put yourself in the right and you shame yourself further.
^Doesn't that just mean he is an inconsistent player like I said?
I edited that comment again, my unedited comment was me telling you that he only played 10 solo ranked games and only won 4, though that's only Dotabuff being not accurate when you filter solo queue ranked games.
He lost the Morphling game in High Skill yo
What kind of VHS player loses in High skill as a farmed up pos 1?
He was top networth Medusa in his team but his damage output is same as his pudge that alone is enough to know he's not performing well.
But that's not all, I just can't imagine how Pudge+Jak VS Riki+Undying can lose the lane so hard.
Not to mention with a DP they only managed to take 2 towers? What the fuck?
It's not the draft in this game. Both draft are equally bad.
Then it comes down to DO THE PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PLAY THIS GAME, which is skill.
And still going 20 kills 10 deaths? Getting a high kda then losing is normal in Dota 2, do you want me to show you what a true acc buyer looks like?
here's a thing yeah the draft phase might affect your winning, but the most impact to winning is skill
a lot of 4k players didnt the right time when to farm, gank, or even back
the axe in your match didnt know tha right time to initiate you
he didnt have patient to do that
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/339996749/matches?enhance=overview
See that, that's what an acc buyer looks like, you can make a guess when he bought the account.
It's a High Skill game for a VHS player. Getting 20/10 isn't even impressive. And worse, he lost the game as a farmed up pos 1.
I've seen acc buyers. And I'm not emphasizing he is one. I'm just saying this guy haven't played dota for half an year, and suddenly he stopped playing party games and started solo queue. Even if he isn't an acc buyer, he is gonna perform worse than his usual.
"JUST LOOK AT THIS GUY'S MEDUSA WINRATE
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/317971715
He's absolute trash
Probably an acc buyer or overcalibrated"
"He's absolute trash
Probably an acc buyer or overcalibrated"
"trash
Probably acc buyer"
"acc buyer"
"a lot of 4k players didnt the right time when to farm, gank, or even back" "here's a thing yeah the draft phase might affect your winning, but the most impact to winning is skill"
How can skill have an impact to winning? I am an ancient player, playing against an ancient player, which puts me on the same skill level as him, when playing against players with equal skill, the only real advantage you can gain is drafting advantage.
And like you said, Axe doesn't want to get kited by you. What he does? He gets an SB for better initiation on you. Yeah sure that can be countered by having detection. But you can't have detection everywhere. And that's your team's job too.
So the tides turned, your so called "Sniper counters Axe" is now "Axe counters Sniper".
He did everything he could. He has the highest damage output despite having a "Sniper counter Axe" game.
Doesn't seem like he was countered.
Oh one "prolly" sentence of our long long convo and I'm emphasizing it
Also 1 win out of only 6 Medusa games says a lot of how he's a bad Medusa player.
Says, it is actually you getting countered... How the fuck did they lose?
"But that's not all, I just can't imagine how Pudge+Jak VS Riki+Undying can lose the lane so hard.
Not to mention with a DP they only managed to take 2 towers? What the fuck?"
I already explained this in the previous page of comments can you read? Those heroes don't have a "sure" way of beating Sniper, Pudge hook is hard to land long range, and Axe needs Blink Dagger or Shadow Blade and Blademail to kill me, but since I am Sniper, he can't get those items in time, so I am free to farm, get gold and do Sniper things, while he's still busy getting items, and by the time he got those items already, I only need to be wary of the possibility of him blinking on me and he can't get a good call in, I didn't do it in that game, but you can hide your Sniper's presence in clash by simply not showing up and hiding behind a tree or standing on high ground and not attacking, this will force Axe to initiate on other teammates, that's when Sniper shows up,
See that Sniper, if putting the same effort as Axe, has an advantage.
No one sends Jak and Pudge to gank Sniper, all Pudge needs to do, is try to zone one of the lanes. Just stay there and make sure nobody can't walk too close to Axe, or maybe go try killing lvl1 Timber with Jak. Then they can't get rekt in lanes. They will only get rekt when they overcommit and fail.
That's where skill comes to play. No one should commit a fight until Sniper is found.
Axe should always focus and wait on you, his teammates are tanky enough to take a few hits and fight head on.
They have a farmed Medusa and a DP. Without your Sniper damage, they should win. But Medusa gets a Maelstrom and is paper, so she can't take the front? That's why the item's a bad choice. Medusa has split shot to farm and fight, getting Maelstrom in this meta is just stupid.
Pudge gets a Force+ Spirit Vessel instead of Blink or Aether to try dealing with you.
These are the ways to "counter" your Sniper. Dota is a game with 5v5 heroes each with 6 slots.
The fact that there are legit initiators who can buy Blink should be a counter to Sniper.
You are making it look all so easy with that comment, you are just too ignorant of what counterpicking can do, this is Ancient vs Ancient, but you are telling them to play like a divine pub, no you are telling them to play like an organized Divine 5 man stack, my argument is that in a game of EQUALLY SKILLED players, picking is what matters most of the time and playing matters only a little. It's not fair that you are telling them to play like a divine, please tell me and my team to play like a divine too to make it fair dota.
It doesn't matter if they are organized, their draft has a lot of weakness and little flexibility, it's not Leshrac Sand King, it's fucking Pudge and Axe, both heroes most of the time unpicked and unbanned. They didn't pick right and it's equal skill, no boosters for fair game, we have draft advantage and we will win using much much less effort and mechanical skill, we make mistakes and they will hardly comeback, we will heavily punish them for not picking right.
"Pudge gets a Force+ Spirit Vessel instead of Blink or Aether to try dealing with you."
Blink has no components for buildup, and Force Staff can push his team out of Shrapnel, we have a Dragon Knight and Timbersaw, Spirit Vessel helps more.
i didnt reallly read the wall of texts here,but if you really want that axe to jump on you that axe can just go in later then wait for you to his range/try to not to take fights where he can't jump on you/use trees to get closer on you
if sharpnel is a problem he can also get hod+active/bkb then force+dagger instead by having lotsa of monies and not probably dying on unnecesary teamfight
or,he could wreck his lane by pulling since you're using riki support+undying and sniper has 0 base dmg to lasthit on tower,nor to tank creeps
then he'll be richer than anyone of you,gets dag in 7-10m with vg and bullies you
not saying counter picks doesnt matter,it matters and has a huge impact (especially sniper>medu) but there's ways that you can deal with them
Thinking about it, what you said in your comment would make their team play worse.
" all Pudge needs to do, is try to zone one of the lanes. Just stay there and make sure nobody can't walk too close to Axe"
I am a sniper and I have a gun do I need to walk close?
"or maybe go try killing lvl1 Timber with Jak"
You are not even showing confidence if that's the right thing to do.
"That's where skill comes to play. No one should commit a fight until Sniper is found. "
Can you recall any experience in Dota 2 ordinary pubgame, whereas the team did not commit until a hero is found? And all Sniper has to do anyways is position himself where he won't get the attention, Dragon Knight and Timbersaw getting all the focus of the entire team without much effort, DK doing DK things and Timber doing Timber things, easily done unconsciously in pubgames without pre planning.
Matchmaking tries its best to make 2 teams of 5 players, who the system believes have equal chance of winning. now the players are not all actually at the same skill, It might differ a bit (probably up to 20% higher skilled if no booster involved). But Picks can be ALOT better than just 20%.
My point is, It is about the skills, but with this number of heroes, Obviously picks are going to matter and can even be decisive considering every one of the 10 players has the same skill. There is nothing wrong with it, and Nobody can control this (otherwise They'd make only 1 hero)
"not saying counter picks doesnt matter,it matters and has a huge impact (especially sniper>medu) but there's ways that you can deal with them"
And there are ways for sniper to deal with them too, axe tries to do this? Then Sniper only needs to do this.
"i didnt reallly read the wall of texts here"
Oh you should because I will be endlessly repeating the same thing over and over again if no one bothers to read everything I said, and I have to repeat the same wall of texts over and over again.
"if sharpnel is a problem he can also get hod+active/bkb then force+dagger instead by having lotsa of monies and not probably dying on unnecesary teamfight. "
Where the fuck does he get that much farm when shrapnel is the problem, jungle is dead poor farm, and Axe can't get much out of lane farm because of shrapnel and Sniper's innate high range.
"or,he could wreck his lane by pulling since you're using riki support+undying and sniper has 0 base dmg to lasthit on tower,nor to tank creeps "
You don't need 2 supports, just undying alone is enough, you are divine so you know what Undy can do to Axe, he saps Axe's strength from midrange without getting close and his zombies don't die to counter helix and slows Axe down to a crawl, you know that the slow from multiple zombies can stack, one zombie is a 7% slow, but five zombies is a 35% slow, Axe's 2 supports Pudge and Jakiro have slow attack speeds, and Undying can place the tombstone where they can't commit to destroying the tomb or else they will die. Sniper 0 dmg to lasthit on tower? Sniper is the one in control of the lane and decides the creep equilibrium since Axe and the 2 supports can't do shit to him, undying will fuck them up, shrapnel will fuck them up they have no way of dodging it unlike Mirana leap or PA's blink.
undy won't be able to do anything to axe at lvl 1
i just pull wave at :47 and repeat that at :17 you won't be able to get any farm,also i'll be lvl 2-3 before undy gets that levels,and you will be low on hp/missing precious lasthits because i force you to lh on tower
axe farms really fast when he wins his lane actually,and yes i didn't read the wall of texts and i dont force you to go to explain all 129310231 stuffs that you say,dw
if you are saying "axe tries to do this and sniper tries do this" then it's just 9k level already,you do your planstuffs vs an enemy
if your plan is broken by the enemy,you lose then. don't make your enemy know what you gonna do and how the hell you can know what i was going to do actually
i'm not talking anything about pudge/jakiro too btw,i hate relying on teammates,so i kinda picture it as a me as a solo offlaner
it's bad in parties,worse in pubs. would probably take it when i know its better me going 2 or 3
for example,on that game where that axe fails his lane.and i got a dag+bm and i know i can make you a food
i would not jump,and just really really wait the perfect moment to jump on you
a pos 3 shutting down enemy's pos 1,which counters my medusa on teamfights
would take that deal everytime
it's like you're silencer,and you're the only enigma counter
you save your ult till he casts his bh,not on some random stuff
"There is nothing wrong with it, and Nobody can control this (otherwise They'd make only 1 hero)"
Dota 2's game design is far from the best, look at this upcoming MOBA game which is a based on a wc3 map https://riseofwinterchill.com/
The game is the ultimate in MOBA design
Hero Flexibility and Complexity, every hero can stand to any other hero in the game provided the player has the skill, while all heroes more complex than your Dota 2's boringly simple low skill ceiling heroes such as Sven and Dragon Knight, better RoW's 30 flexible, complex and three dimensional heroes than Dota 2's around 100 heroes, 90% of Dota 2's heroes being one dimensional and situational picks, only played to counter a hero, while only 10% are flexible and hard to counter.
wat
wat is too short (minimum is 6 characters)
Feachairu if you are playing against a Divine sniper and Undy, players equal your skill level, can you still do those things easily? Not to mention you are playing against a Timber which counters you even harder than Sniper is, in midgame, Timber can pickup a euls and render your call and blademail useless, Timber has slow attack speed and thus harder to kill using Axe, Axe's call can only force Timber to use his normal attacks, and not force Timber to use his skills.
yeah,i can do those things.i'm super confident about it
divine players aren't gods,they play like some crazy freaks also
about eul,i'll probably won't be able to control that,but i'm sure i can wreck the lane of sniper+undy+riki
btw that game rise of winterchill seems pretty good
I looked at your Axe games https://www.dotabuff.com/players/164148112/matches?hero=axe
41.67% winrate on Axe with only 12 games? You are just all talk, you haven't even fought a Sniper and Undying using Axe yet so how do you know for sure that you can beat them when you struggle badly against other heroes.
i got low winrate on axe because i've been doing stupid stuffs on normal games like blocking 3 lanes on enemy t3 actually
well,you can say i'm just all talk then. or i could show them to you because we're on same server,we just need 3 people anyway or 4?
me just explaining some confusions anyway,you are allowed to think of me as some retard or something
Then you must have an other account then that shows you your amazing axe skills.
"i just pull wave at :47 and repeat that at :17 you won't be able to get any farm" - Feachairu
So good at Axe that you can "wreck the lane of sniper+undy" alone and on first try too, I left Riki out because the average ancient Riki player is not that stupid enough to try to zone out Axe using Riki and would go offlane instead.
The mention 6 slots is important as it illustrates how decision making remains of utmost importance throughout the game, not just during drafting. Dota has always favored informed decisions over 'twitchy skill' (I consider it a core principle), and the majority of encounters rely on some form of preemptive action. This can be seen in warding, epicenter, glimpse, shadowblade, powershot, exorcism, quite easily, but also is present when one purchases silver edge against bristle, halberd against huskar, and orchid against weaver.
Drafting is absolutely important, but it is just the beginning of smart preemptive decision making that permeates every facet of Dota. Players who have better knowledge during a game are much more likely to overcome drafting odds as they can identify when and where problems will arise, and how to address them. It seems the Axe you speak of did not understand his hero potential well enough to capitalize on positioning, but I'm a bit surprised you aren't more proud of your own preemptive actions to gain advantage. I'm even more surprised that you don't see them as an example of a situation that was NOT won or lost primarily by drafting.
So no, I wouldn't say Dota is 75% drafting. It's 75% information and planning throughout, 25% execution. On the surface that might sound similar, but I think it's a pretty important difference. If I wanted a game that is more 'twitchy' I would play League, where last time I played, there were almost no channel times for anything--it was almost universally instant casts.
On the subject of balancing the game for the majority, I would assume that would produce a mass exodus from pubbers and pros alike. Balancing the game with a high skill ceiling intent means players feel like there is always room to grow. The endless complexity and possibility is why many of us Dota players stick with the game. Any complaints that a hero is 'overpowered' is negated by a slew of items, teamwork, and focus options that better players can demonstrate. Those options wouldn't exist if the game were, let's be honest about what we are talking about here, simplified.
That's just me though, and my preferences. Good luck out there bro!
Internet people arguing over personal opinions. Classic but still sad
er,i don't have any other accounts,only has this which is my friend's
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/191338157
axe is just too strong of a hero atm,i just picture things out and i did tried him (that dotabuff page isn't updated) on this meta.
i'm not saying i'm a good axe player,i'm actually bad at him
but you really can destroy that kind of lane with some offlane knowledge,especially with axe
ye i kinda suspected riki would go off from wat you saying,he won't be able to touch axe anyw
haHaHA the ENDLESS COMPLEXITY AND POSSIBILITY OF DOTA he says
"Internet people arguing over personal opinions. Classic but still sad"
But the difference is that I argue using facts, I use references and the people talking to me use none, everyone somehow believes that an Axe can just git gud and beat Sniper in a lane using only technical and mechanical skill, then why is it that Axe is unpicked and unbanned in pro games? Pros can just git gud git gud on Axe and win right? Wait did I just use a reference? That none of you all seem to do? Like this Feachairu, talks big on what he can do with axe but has nothing to prove that. In the example I gave, I last picked a Sniper vs Axe Death Prophet Medusa right? What if I last picked a Troll Warlord? Would I still stand a chance of winning? At least Sniper can win the lane even if he can't survive a blademail call, but Troll can't win the lane and also can't survive a blademail call, if a Troll is fighting an Axe on equal skill, no boosters, then Troll will predictably and boringly lose the lane and then rest of the game also because Troll is an easy target for Jakiro's Ice Path and can't outrange a Medusa.
okay..not gonna change your perspective then
from my knowledge that's literally the only way to win the lane tho,a ancient 2 or divine sniper won't be able to actually understands you pull enemy wave to enemy bounty too so the waves meet and you contest axe there(this sometimes doesnt work also) or just clear the wave asap so tower will kill your own wave while axe is busy pulling
and if he's just tanking/tries to lh in tower axe 100% won that lane already
wat can undy do,decay+tombstone while i'm running pulling waves
tombstone lvl 1 is really bad too
if you got a good technical and mechanical skills,it's natural for people to get higher medals/mmr then? since you can beat your enemies
err,axe is definitely picked alot on pro games now. am i missing something
again,i could show you(to add the fact factor) if you wan,only on the lane factor tho
Axe picked alot of pro games? Give links.
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/events/252-mdl-changsha-major-2018/heroes
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/events/251-gesc-thailand-minor-2018/heroes
he was picked pretty high on those tourneys,or wat you mean he needs on top 5 or something
this debate is getting tedious,dam
nid to give link and all
"wat can undy do,decay+tombstone while i'm running pulling waves"
Then I also only need to pull the lane too, until we have 3 waves of creeps vs 3 waves of creeps, think you have the advantage since there's that many creeps that Axe can use? Think again because it still won't solve your Shrapnel problem and having lots of creeps hitting you would make you drop health fast and predictably die like the endless possibility and complexity of this game is before you can farm half of them all. You know the only possibilty to win against Sniper, get a Tusk support and ride on his snowball to Sniper then call, you need to pick right in this game, picking matters more than playing well. A booster if picking wrong would only get a 55% winrate at his best, and almost 100% if picking right.
so if u dont want hero picked affect the result of the game then everygame
when u play with ur equal skill player will end up with draw result? lol stupid
Nice to see that Axe is getting picked.
no pick invole to decide the result of match then u just play game and random the winner u want something like that?
"so if u dont want hero picked affect the result of the game"
NO, if dota 2 is supposed to be the best competitive game with the highest prize pool then it should be 25% picking and 75% playing, not 75% picking and 25% playing. See that picking affects the game, but not so much that it almost guarantees a win or lose.
uh i definitely don't want to get hit by 3 waves of creeps while i'm just having a boot as a first item,pulling is just for exp/gold
yeah,like what i say you can just pull the wave from your safelane by letting your waves die and go to enemy bounty+contest them there
most people won't think that though,and that's what i call a better skills/game knowledge.which you can use to outplay your opposition
(playing)
i'm not defending axe side and that radiant has a chance of winning or something,that depends on how they exchange fights/farm/etc etc
i'm not on that level where i can predict what will happen on teamfights/push
me just talking about offlane,er and yes you don't really need tuskar on your lane (or you talking on teamfights?)
hey op if im ancient 1 and youre ancient 1 means we're both equally skilled at dota 2? most flawed logic ive ever seen..skill is not quantitative and objective and that applies especially to a game with multiple complexities and several input factors....even if you and i had 100% win rate on 1 hero it no where near implies that we are equally skilled at that hero because every single game that you and I played on that hero is different
so your argument is inherently flawed
also drafting will only guarantee a win or lose if you draft badly in which case you do in fact deserve to lose
meanwhile WW is the only hero i win my ranked games with. :)
I get your point. Picking is super important when all players are on the same skill level aka most solo ranked games.
But it is definetly not 75% of the game. There are games that are already lost in picking phase for sure but it is not everything. When people ask what to pick i always tell them "What you can play best" and mention some heros that are good in that situation in my opinion. I rather have a rikki spammer with 500+ games playing his rikki offlane than him playing his 2 games timbersaw even if it would be the best pick here.
Also if you play a hero often you know the counters and you know how to play around them.
When you are miracle- playing with your 4 herald friends game will be normal skill. He can still loose it because enemy will have midone with his 4 herald friends. Wtf is your point.
Finding Sniper in fights is common knowledge, doesnt take a Divine to know that.
About Pudge, I can't be confident he can kill Timber but if he did that, he will give Timber a hard time but I guess he didn't, your Timber is pretty happy in lane.
I just need you to answer both of these
1. If Axe is so countered by your Sniper, why is he doing better than the rest of his team? Shouldn't he be choking?
2. Farmed Medusa 3/5 with same damage as Pudge? How good is he?
The game is not decided in draft... Does draft impact they game? yeah but there's no way draft is 75% of the game i don't think you know what you're talking about.