General Discussion

General Discussion[IDEA] Reduce MMR Gains when repeatedly winning with the same heroes

[IDEA] Reduce MMR Gains when repeatedly winning with the same heroes in General Discussion
HS

    Introduction
    Hello all, i would like to introduce myself to the dotabuff community.
    I am a pretty old player, started out from DotA 1 in 2009.
    My DotA 2 account was started in 2011 during TI1 where navi was the king.

    Previously from 2013, i stopped playing and took a 5 years break from DotA.
    I started playing again in 2018 and calibrated my first ever 10 ranked games.
    I was put into an archon 5.. i was a little disappointed.

    There were many changes made into this game.
    Eventually, i managed to grasp the basics and had naturally ranked up all the way to ancient 3.
    Being at ancient 3, the games still felt pretty comfortable and enjoyable to me.
    I could play almost every hero i liked and still perform decently at this MMR.
    Bullshit aside, lets get things started.

    /

    Firstly, i noticed that there are plenty of people that plays the same hero repeatedly to gain MMR.
    It is a huge problem especially for NEW players.

    For instance, a fairly new player started playing DotA.
    He is a guardian ranked player spamming sniper and worked his way to legend.
    One day, sniper was picked by an opponent.
    He picked another hero, did not felt comfortable playing it and got completely shut down by his opponents.
    His teammates had expected a lot more from him since they were supposed to be around the same skill level.
    However, he achieved his rank by playing only 1 hero which is a terrible representation of his skills.

    Unfortunately, this person did not learnt his lesson and continues to pick sniper because he fears losing mmr and had a terrible experience playing other heroes. This has stopped him from gaining versatility and enjoying the game completely.

    /

    By reducing MMR Gains when winning with the same heroes repeatedly.

    It can
    - Improve the versatility of players (Higher MMR players are alot more versatile).
    - Improve the quality of matchmaking (Players can fill up roles when needed).
    - Improve the enjoyment of the game (DotA is not about playing 1 hero).
    - Improve newb friendliness (New players have more time to learn more heroes).
    - Improve the skill representation of MMR.

    TLDR: By not filling yourself up in another person shoes, you cannot be a better team player.
    Please feel free to leave any constructive opinions, thank you for reading have a nice day.

    Questa Discussione è stata modificata
    EMELIUS

      so the workaround is just to have 2 heroes you pick in a pattern

      ILikeGumball

        Of course only 2, gaben don't like More than 2, Less than 4

        Ayaneru   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          I think the banning phase should be reworked. Think it like this.

          Start the game.
          10 players will ban a single hero. A total of 4 hero will be ban and it will be selected randomly (2 on both sides if posible)
          Team A will first pick.
          Team B will pick 2 hero.
          Another banning phase. A total of 4 hero will be ban.
          Team A will pick 2 hero.
          Team B will pick 2 hero.
          Another banning phase! A total of 4 hero again will be ban.
          Team A will pick their last 2 heroes.
          Team B with their last pick.

          A total of up to 12 heroes can be ban on a single game.

          Q: Why is this?
          A: So you can avoid a nasty combo by the enemies so that flexibility of hero should be prioritize on each players.
          Q: Its like CM!
          A: Yes but with no captain. Also, the hero that will be ban are randomly chosen. You want to play Meepo? Tell your team to ban phoenix, ES, Wyvern, etc.
          Q: What if no one ban?
          A: Then no hero will be ban. Duh

          Kotato

            GTFO, OP, no one needs you or your stupid ideas

            cartel

              i feel like a good workaround is putting the player against players who have high winrates against the hero he is spamming....this way only if he is reaaally good at his hero he will be able to climb...eventually he will be put against people who have like 90% winrate against his hero and he will be just frustrated and either quit the game which is good for him or find another hero

              Marko Bulat

                You dont understand the point, people are spamming hero because you cant learn the game mechanic and be good at them and in the same time learn the hero and be good at using his abilities properly in clashes. One will always suffer, this is the pure reason why 80% of the playerbase will never reach at least 3k MMR, instead of focusing and conquering aspects of the game 1 by 1 they are all over the place and live in the illusion they know how to play but in the fact they are terrible at everything.

                Sure that sniper might suck on other heroes but his game sense, farming patterns and mechanics are 4k and this is enough to sustain him there no matter what he picks unless its some 3 star difficulty hero than he will fall apart because he cant focus on the game, if he was all over the place, playing whatever, he would probably still be shit like most of the people, do you realize there are people with 2k+ hours still stuck on low MMR because they have wrong approach on learning the game?

                So if those low MMR players would implement this strategy they would reach 3k MMR easy, because even a baboon can play on 3k, but 3k is 30 percentile of players and every normal human being can reach 4k MMR, Ancient and Divine are 10 percentile while Immortal are less than 1%, so you see how many people strugle with the literal basics of the game, 4k MRR is the soft cap where you really have to put effort into deeper game knowledge and mechanical skills to progress further everything under that is just laughable, if i would give you 2k or 3k smurfs you would wipe the floor with them because they suck at every aspect of the game.

                And also everyone have their comfort pick, you have 100+ games with WR for example.

                Questo commento è stato modificato
                chicken spook,,,,

                  I honestly feel that if you're winning a fuckton in a bracket you should get sent to higher bracket quicker

                  mute all

                    nope :)

                    ywn

                      What a dumb post from a bad player

                      one syllable anglo-saxon

                        dont be so hard on yourself ywn

                        Feachairu

                          i like ayase's idea

                          HS

                            Well, too many hero spammers got tilted.. no point continuing discussion.
                            That wasn't my intention for this thread at all. Mods please close thread.

                            Questo commento è stato modificato
                            Hanen

                              Do what you will I will keep spamming warlock. Reduced MMR Idc, I'll be honest he isn't even that good. I play it because of the Aesthetics. I've always loved heroes that have huge in your face ults & It just gotta be flashy! (Reminds me of Megumin and her Explosion skill xD)

                              T-800

                                I think you are grasping it wrong. To this day i have not seen a pro player that is godlike on every hero in the game. They have their comfort-picks, like us regular player, its just that literally every other aspect of the game is way stronger in a pro-player and ofc skill-lv in general.

                                I also think that people in general would rather main 2-3 heroes up to 4k and then try out different heroes on that skill-lv, rather then playing 100 different heroes in 2k and be stuck there year after year, because they really dont ever actually get really good at one or two heroes. In the end they end up abandoning the game, or post some shitpost here complaining about how bad they are at this game.

                                Kotato

                                  it is better to spam a hero than to spam a crappy thread at this forum

                                  HS

                                    I appreciate those that left constructive feedback.

                                    However, I realized that there were a few non-constructive feedback and all of them were made by a certain group of people.
                                    I checked the profiles of people that left non-constructive feedback and indeed they were the group of people that were playing the same hero repeatedly.

                                    It was not my intention to trigger or offend this group of people at the point of creating this thread, neither did i have any ill intentions.

                                    Questo commento è stato modificato
                                    ywn

                                      what really triggered me was this:

                                      Improve the enjoyment of the game (DotA is not about playing 1 hero).

                                      i hate when ppl try to shove their opinions down my throat like facts. I've played this game longer than you and i only enjoy 2/5 roles and a limited number of heroes + nobody plays every hero/role equally good doesnt matter who you are, everyone has signature heroes and roles

                                      T-800

                                        This above ^
                                        Also spamming for an example one hero makes me think more about the matchups i meet on 3. pos, the items i build, gameplay and less on mechanical skills because i stumble between 4-5 different heroes every day. I learn more about the actuall game, instead of spending time on the hero.

                                        Metsis

                                          This is the problem... For the entire match making. You may be really good on your top hero as Sniper, but what if he is banned? Your real mmr is much lower than it would be if you were on your main hero... The match making system cannot calculate for this in anyway... Unless you take into account the banning patterns of the players in game... I usually ban the same heroes.

                                          There is no way to make the perfect mm system, it is what it is... And Icefrog will keep dabbling with it. The one thing that did work there for a while was the behavior score mm. That was good, for me, as it removed the poison from the team mates. Those were sure ez games... Bring that back! However I know that players at the different end of the spectrum had a vastly different experience, but it was nice to me.

                                          Ritsu x boni = 0 IQ

                                            Lmao, why would valve implement this when spamming has been a thing in EVERY moba game

                                            Feachairu

                                              hi stop thinking that we actually got offended/titled/mad/whatever LOL

                                              what ywn says,nobody really wants to learn all the heroes or stuff tbh,even if you want to you'll just learn the meta heroes unless you are a real hardcore dota fan and willing to spend 999999999 hours or something,its really hard and we are just casuals duuudeeeeee

                                              Questo commento è stato modificato
                                              SirIronSights

                                                Aha so what about the people that spam diverse heroes, but just end up winning. Do they directly rise in rank, like from guardian to archon. Or do they receive less mmr from their wins? Or doesn't anything change? You do know that changing it for hero spammers is probably gonna change something for everyone else.

                                                papito bravo

                                                  ^
                                                  Is that illegal?
                                                  Maybe you are, but I'm quite sure dota heroes are not.

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                                                  Sanft & Sorgfältig

                                                    Just play cm or rd

                                                    papito bravo

                                                      ^
                                                      Panda wanna play with elephant.

                                                      Dukeus

                                                        Its a fucking game. I like the playstyle of like 10-15 Heroes. Just let me play whatever i want.

                                                        papito bravo

                                                          ^
                                                          And let me post whatever I want too.

                                                          Ritsu x boni = 0 IQ

                                                            Reduce mmr gain for 100 games when you have just calibrated a new account.

                                                            This way, maybe it wlll discourage people to smurf