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41 commenti
VerteiDigga

    interesting!

    Dagoth Ur
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      B0gan--->hunter
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        Grimm

          nice post

          Lailah 残虐姫

            we certainly need more "break" mechanic

            Hey

              SATAN!

              Qazior

                Mute (silencing items) could also be used more

                [Lk].Zano

                  After reading this, I realized that indeed, Dota doesn't have a single hero who lowers the effectiveness of healing spells and regeneration, even though we have heroes who amplify it.

                  Oh, maybe that Sylph fairy will fill that niche? One could only dream, it'd certainly make Necro, Dazzle or Juggernaut ward lineups much less obnoxious to play against.

                  Eat Soup With A Fork

                    ^^^^ yeah I think if the new armadillo guy could break passive for abilities and items (echo and heart would disable) but the item can still activate. (if you had mango, you could eat it, but it wont give 1 hp regen+ because its "passive" is muted/broken)^^^^

                    Anomalina~

                      Great post! Thank you for writing about it, since I was especially willing to talk about the 'Break' and 'Turn rate' mechanic for a long time.

                      A suggestion that might sound OP at first, but could potentially make the heroes decent/meta, especially in pub games with lack of teamwork and coordination, thus helping '1v9' players.

                      Add the 'Break' mechanic to Huskar's ultimate, which ironically is called 'Life Break'. He could be situationally strong against heroes that rely on their passive rather than just forcing the hero into a cheese strat comboing him with a defensive/healer support like Oracle. Adjusting the health loss/damage dealt OR slow would be necessary.

                      Remove the mechanic of 'Turn Rate' entirely from IO. The hero is undeniably strong in the hands of pro players, but again, only because of their strong coordination and ability to combo it with another hero in the middle lane, thus adjusting the draft in the other lanes to synergize well. Rarely seen in the pub scene, especially where the hero's winrate is abysmal. Also, would be logical owing to the hero's actual character design.

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                      tertig

                        Io has no turn rate mechanic, it attacks and moves instantly actually.

                        Wayful Spirit

                          I think the biggest challenge of the dota right is vision deficiency.

                          Fireballs

                            All i want is hard counter for bb i know viper is good against bb but still

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                            wurm
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                              MM.Brock Hall

                                @Anomalina~

                                I'd actually argue that it would force him into a support role as the low cooldown of life break AND the no mana cost would mean you could spam break onto a bristle and keep him out of every fight without sacrificing a stronger mid pick. The same thing happened with Pudge, and even though he still doesn't see a lot of play on the pro level, it's TONS more than it used to be.

                                Overall it's still too OP, but considering that you would be sacrificing better lockdown from a CM or something you could possibly make the case that it's fine.

                                meteor hammer

                                  I don't want more turnrate slows though.. Very obnoxious to play against

                                  darko5000

                                    Another interesting mechanic that you haven't mentioned is 'Fear' or 'Taunt' that Lone Druid's Savage Roar has.
                                    I remember there were a few hero's in HoN that had this mechanic.

                                    mECh

                                      How about an item that can disable/silenced an item. I think only doom and disruptor had that, but that was their ultimate.

                                      Anomalina~

                                        Io has no turn rate mechanic, it attacks and moves instantly actually.

                                        Direct quote from gamepedia:

                                        Despite not requiring to turn in order to take any action, Io still uses a turn rate (0.7). This means, despite starting to move/attack/cast spells instantly at a target behind it, Io still requires roughly 0.13 seconds to turn 180° and face towards the target. This still existing turn rate affects spells which work with the facing angle of the targeted unit, like Blink Strike, Cloak and Dagger Staff, Force Staff. In order to distinguish where Io is facing its front is marked visually by an arc.

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                                        ░░░gameruiner░░░
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                                          Powerpuff

                                            what wisp also doesnt require to turn when auto attacking?
                                            that would make him godly for kiting and running + hitting

                                            fuck love

                                              "After reading this, I realized that indeed, Dota doesn't have a single hero who lowers the effectiveness of healing spells and regeneration, even though we have heroes who amplify it.
                                              Oh, maybe that Sylph fairy will fill that niche? One could only dream, it'd certainly make Necro, Dazzle or Juggernaut ward lineups much less obnoxious to play against."

                                              you ever heard of the hero called "ancient apparition"? and btw, necro lowers regeneration.
                                              don't know what u are talking about...

                                              Anomalina~

                                                you ever heard of the hero called "ancient apparition"? and btw, necro lowers regeneration.
                                                don't know what u are talking about...

                                                Autism? Autism.

                                                KeepAwake

                                                  I was really surprised while looking thru a list of the heroes just HOW MANY of them have a non-0.5 turn rate. It seems just a couple get adjustments to that stat each patch but it's added up!

                                                  Actually, it was probably even after my first 1k matches I remember feeling smart when I heard that Shadow Fiend's turn rate is double everyone else's [1.0].

                                                  [Lk].Zano

                                                    you ever heard of the hero called "ancient apparition"? and btw, necro lowers regeneration.
                                                    don't know what u are talking about...

                                                    You ever heard of the concept called "reading comprehension"? and btw, necro's aura is negative regeneration.

                                                    Oh wait, I just called you out on your reading comprehension, I can't just assume you understood what I just wrote, so I'll spell it out. AA doesn't lower regeneration, he flat out disables it. Necro's aura doesn't lower regeneration, it's a type of damage.

                                                    Lowering the effectiveness of regeneration would mean having a spell that, if a target was affected by an hypothetical debuff that lowers regeneration and healing effects by 40%, then something like Omniknight's level 4 Purification would heal only 180 HP instead of 300 and Juggernaut's healing ward would take almost double the amount of time it does now to fully heal its allies.

                                                    Oh wait, you are thinking, why would we need that if there's Ancient Apparition who already disables regen? Well, for starters, you could slap that skill on another hero instead of depending on the ULTIMATE of one that sucks balls in several situations, could easily be banned and who not many people actually enjoy playing because he's also boring as hell if you are not using some kind of meme build.

                                                    Anomalina~

                                                      @[Lk].Zano Thank you.
                                                      I was low on energy and starting to lose my sanity, so it feels good when someone helps out.

                                                      MM.Brock Hall

                                                        @Mech Bot

                                                        You are referring to a Mute effect, and there currently seven sources of Mute:

                                                        Disruptor (only with aghs)
                                                        Doom ulti
                                                        SS and Lion Hex
                                                        Sheepstick (also Hex)
                                                        Legion Commander (applies to both duel participants with aghs)
                                                        Tusk Snowball (only applies Mute to Tusk, disables anyone else in snowball)

                                                        Mute is extremely powerful in its own right, and having more heroes with Mute would severely imbalance the game. Blink Dagger is already put on cooldown with damage, but Force Staff would have almost no utility if you could buy an item early in the game that disabled it as well. Hex is on a very expensive item, and that's probably where mute should stay. The same goes with a full stun on the very expensive abyssal, and break on an ever increasing priced silver edge. Even Orchid is pretty expensive. I'm not saying Mute cannot be a more prevalent effect in the game, but if Valve is to do so, it will have to be in very small amounts. Short durations, low damage, etc.

                                                        👌

                                                          Turn rate slow in Dota 2 is nothing compared to DotA. Do you remember Jakiro and his clunky turn rate? Earthshaker? You don't have that anymore in Dota 2.

                                                          µ's SuBi ♪

                                                            ^ Jakiro and Spiritbreaker are litterally gliding when they turn in dota1. lel.

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                                                            FlubbyTubby

                                                              Anomalina, it's great that you pointed out that Io has a turn rate, still it seems that you don't quite understand what you quoted from Gamepedia. I won't claim to be correct, I'll leave testing of the obscure mechanics to the experts, this is just my own opinion. Io turnrate does not affect movement, auto attacks and tether, but it does interact with certain items. I'll only talk about force staff, since that's the only one which I am remotely sure about, based on the quotes from Gamepedia . When enemies or teammates force staff Io, depending on the switch in direction of Io, it will be force staffed in either its original direction, or the direction it switched to, based on whether the 0.5 seconds for turnrate have passed or not. Thus, it mostly doesn't matter whether Io has turn rate or not as it will not interfere with the mechanics of the hero, auto attacks, tether, movement, etc. As to why it was not removed entirely for Io, it may be that removal of turn rate for Io will cause force staff to be broken when interacting with Io, i . e. causing Io to be force staffed in random directions due to a lack of a marker. (pure speculation on that last part)

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                                                              Anomalina~

                                                                I only want the mechanic to be removed from IO so that the hero is not affected by turn rate. There are very few mechanics or abilities in the game that affect it in the first place, as the blog post itself explains, but nevertheless, I'd like the hero to have that slight edge.

                                                                I understand what you just described, and it might cause problems with force staff interactions, but I don't say his "face" or "arc" should be removed.

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                                                                FlubbyTubby

                                                                  Could you clarify the edge that Io would actually receive if turn rate was removed for it entirely? I'm pretty interested.

                                                                  Noir

                                                                    I believe having a hero or an item that effectively reduces healing could potentially (and drastically) affect another source of HP regeneration: lifesteal.

                                                                    Lifesteal grows directly proportional with any increase in right-click damage. At the moment, there are many ways to deal with strong lifesteals (w/o hard disables): increasing armor, active abilities (i.e. Bane's Enfeeble and Medusa's Mana Shield), passive abilities (Underlord's Atrophy Aura), active items (i.e. 50% damage reduction from Silver Edge), among others. That being said, adding another mechanic that could further lower the effectiveness of lifesteal could render the said mechanic to the "almost useless" category. That's not to say I disagree implementing mechanics to "reduction to healing effectiveness" in-game, but I'd like it to be a skill or item that has to be set through "stacking" to be relevant, very much like how Sticky Naphalm" works, instead of a direct point-target skill that does an instant "reduce heal effectiveness by X%". And maybe... let's say name the skill "Fairy Dust"? Mehehehe.

                                                                    Well anyway, I am personally not THAT sure if lifesteal does count as health regen, but feel free to criticize my point.

                                                                    BRAIN POWER

                                                                      Bristle has an overall 48% winrate and sits at a whopping 42% at 5k and above. If anything, a break ability would dumpster him even further

                                                                      𝟙𝕜

                                                                        I suggest item with a mana leak/drain other than diffusal should be added in game.

                                                                        bogey654

                                                                          @Noir Lifesteal is not HP regen but a burst heal, like Purification. If an ability specifically stated regen it should not impair Lifesteal. However stating healing on the whole being reduced by 10% then it would of course work on Lifesteal.

                                                                          Gabba Gabba

                                                                            This was the worst article i think you guys have ever posted tbh

                                                                            Noir

                                                                              @bogey654 I'm sorry for the confusion, but I used the word "regeneration" in its broadest definition: regaining health.

                                                                              May it be from "heals" (sudden burst of health regained in a short amount of time) or the conventional understanding of "regen" (health gained back through time, a.k.a. "Heal Over Time" or HoT), both are affected by factors and mechanisms that increase/decrease heal/regen effectiveness (i.e. Necrophos' Ghost Shroud not only increases health regained through "heals" aimed at him, but it also multiplies his "regen" - either from his natural HoT or from the passive regeneration from Death Pulse - during its duration.

                                                                              It's also interesting to note that if you hit a hero utilizing lifesteal, say Lifestealer, with Ice Blast, the hero will not be able to regain HP through right-clicks despite the lifesteal animation still procing. This shows a relationship between heal/regen and lifesteal, where I based my original comment on.

                                                                              une race SALE du qc mon pays

                                                                                OH NO GOD FORBID WE CREATE HEROES THAT HAVE GOOD MATCHUPS AND BAD MATCHUPS - THAT WOULD AFFECT THE BALANCE OF THE GAME
                                                                                Quality Socks article, as ever.

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                                                                                Par-zival GameTame.com

                                                                                  WE also need actually support PURGE items mechanics gee and debuffs for supportings