General Discussionnormal bracket as its finest

just take a look at this:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/304506323

again, im not the best pro EU player nor im trying to be, but this? i have no words...

this guy has ruined everything..
http://dotabuff.com/players/61975587

Well, http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/1073

90% of posters here plays very high most of the time so we cant rly relate to your problem with super shit players

but u can try lycan streak to get out of shit bracket
mainly what u do is ignore your retarded team and focus on pushing towers and raxing enemy with necro 3 i believe u should stomp shit brackets this way np

I find Lycan is extremely good at winning normal level games no matter what your team does. As he said Necro 3 and desolater...you can jungle farm in quickly unless its like a 20-0 at 10 feedfest. Then you have the power to backdoor and just take towers and rax...if you actually have creeps with you Lycan with deso and necro 3 full howl on....a T3 tower can die from full health before a tp scroll can be completed.

^ really? I might try that. How does the back door protection thing works with necro 3? Do u just walk into base with the summons? Also how will u lane Lycan? Heard he's less effective in jungle now

not really hes still rly strong jungler you just have to tank instead of wolves

If you are going to solo, don't pick first. Especially mid. The best way to get out of shit tier is to stack.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/304903508

My tragic attempt at push build Lycan.

Check out seer's items. Tree was picked up, didn't buy wards or courier and only healed himself. Only Sniper was remotely good, but the feeds was so strong it was over within 20 mins :)

not your fault, lycan sucks, period
alch/naix are much better, even ursa

^^ u cant win unwinnable games

Backdoor protection heal is 90hp/sec. You need to do over 90 dps to the tower to kill it faster than it can heal...much faster if you want to get it down in a reasonable period of time.

T3 towers have 25 Fortified armor.

Level 16 Lycan with Treads, Vlads, Necro 3, Desolater has a total networth of only 13000 it is possible to exceed 500 gpm on Lycan if you jungle correctly so you can reach this point around 25 min.

At this point Lycan in ult form and his units have massive buffs. Lycan's dmg would be 166 base+stats, Vlads adds 25, Impulse adds 50, Howl adds 50, desolater adds 60...total dmg 351, including the crits average attack is 530 dmg. His attack speed is +45 from stats, +15 treads, +9 necro aura, +30 impulse with a base attack time of 1.5. He does 705 dps. This is Hero dmg it does 50% to towers so cut it to 353 dps.

Wolves are buffed from 44 avg dmg by Vlads to 50, Impulse to 57, Howl to 73 crits to avg dmg 110. Attack speed is buffed by impulse +30 and necro +9. Base attack time 1.1. 2 wolves so their total dps is 277. This is Normal dmg, it does 70% to towers so cut it to 194 dps.

Necro Archer has a base dmg of 120 buffed to 138 with Vlads, 174 with Impulse, 190 with Howl. He gets +30 AS from Impulse and +9 AS from Necro Aura, with a base attack time of 1. His dps is 264. Cut it to 92 for towers.

Necro Warrior has base dmg of 75 buffed to 86 with Vlads, 108 with Impluse, 124 with Howl. He gets +30 AS from Impulse and +9 AS from Necro Aura, with a base attack time of 0.75. His dps is 230. Cut it to 161 for towers.

Total anti-tower damage is 800 dps. At T3 tower has 25 armor, but desolator knocks that down to 18. Actual damage rate to the tower is then 280 dps. So it will take 5.7 seconds to kill the tower from full health...apparently you need a bit more to take it in less than tp scroll time...but people don't notice right away in Normal level so it will probably still die in before anyone ports in.
It definitely feels like you are done before anyone can tp.

Against backdoor regen it is harder --- would take 8.4 seconds to kill it from full health through backdoor regen.

Now if you add an AC to this...now their total anti-tower dps is 451 for Lycan, 221 wolves, 105 Archer, 184 Warrior...total 961...and armor is knocked down to only 13. So the tower dies in less than 3.5 seconds with creeps or 4.4 seconds through backdoor regen.

I typically find that once I have Necro 1 I can really start taking towers. Once I have deso and necro 3 back dooring them usually works. Even if someone could port in to stop me...who wants to port onto a Lycan in ult form with necro 3 out? Max speed necros are very scary. If a real defense does show up in less than 10 seconds I can always leave at max speed...but in reality I pretty much just get towers for free before anyone does anything.

Looking back over my games. I basically won with just vlads and necro 3 and didn't even need the deso. Games where I got DR or something I just picked that up after raxing a lane or two.

http://dotabuff.com/players/103176226/matches?hero=lycanthrope&game_mode=&match_type=real

If there are no creeps you can tank the tower with your hero so none of your units die decreasing your overall dps. Lycan can easily take a dozen tower hits no problem. If you have mad micro skills, tank a tower hit or two on each unit....but its easier to just let it hit your hero.

so much information^ haha great way of approaching it tho i always thought my best bet to win these types of games is to just try and random a decent mid hero and dominate mid then going side lanes to help them and hopefully push some towers down, lycan has been the furthest thing from my thinking since the wolves nerf but i must try this.

It is still possible to jungle from level 1. But you need to tank with the hero so your wolves don't die and then salve up to make it work.

It is much easier to pull and get to level 3 (level 2 wolves) before you start jungling. Whatever you do be sure to pay attention to the lane near you. If you can come into a fight with the wolves against a partially damaged support hero who has already used their nuke or stun...it is very easy to pick up a quick 250 gold...that's the value of 2 camps so its faster progression to attack the lane when you will win as well as better for your team.

Make sure you know how to pull through if you pull as Lycan. This takes some practice, watch someone do it. But if you can it removes an entire wave of gold and xp from the enemy every time you get it. Lycan is also very good at killing the second camp despite anyone coming to challenge because his wolves make it so easy to get the lasthit and you can directly kill most supports who would try to stop you.

Backdoor also reduces damage by 25% so it's harder.

Thanks for the info Relentless, i might try this with a buddy since i am only playin support and i risk of sucking by changing role now all of a sudden.

I wonder if Valve thinks its fun for people to struggle like this, i really would like to know whats on their mind

look at this game

veno straight feed from min 1 and we still kept it competitive for a while, so dont complain -.-

http://dotabuff.com/matches/301127220

as for beating normal bracket, pick nyx/huskar to go mid or riki/spirit breaker in safe lane or jungle ursa/lycan.

I'd say don't pick jungler unless you ask if someone wants to solo offlane. You can never underestimate the stupidity of last pick :P

Ah, I forgot about the dmg reduction so backdoor times would extend to 11.2 sec for deso/vlads/necro 3 and 5.9 sec for adding AC. Anyway, what you really want to do is just take whatever you can off any tower that is exposed to creeps asap. Don't push with the wave or ppl will see you and go to defend. Just be jungling or close enough and the moment the creep wave gets there pop everything and start hammering the tower. Often you will get it before there is any response.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/303266531

What about lich in this match. Is he a noob in general or just trolled the game away?

http://dotabuff.com/matches/305368165 relentless how to play

do not count crit in anti tower damage

@topic It was already said countless times that getting through matchmaking hell needs a special playstyle. Stomp them with snowballing mid hero, push them with lycan or furion, stack with good friends, whatever. If you can't pull off something like this on noobs, you are not worthy of playing against better players.