General Discussion

General DiscussionLets talk balance: phantom lancer

Lets talk balance: phantom lancer in General Discussion
BoJack

    Do you think he's still too strong?

    sano

      no

      BoJack

        ok - i dont agree

        SMELLY APE

          i think he's just like any other carry really. give him a good start and its hard to shut him down. only difference is that its difficult to leave base with constant split push.

          bum farto

            Phantom Lancer was always a strong carry. Its like saying is Anti Mage too strong. Any carry with enough farm will cause a team grief that is why it is in the best interest of a team to shut said carry down and constantly hound the base.

            Emilimia

              Any farmed carry is strong except void. Pa can 1 shot crit you. Pl and am split push and shit on your mana but void fails chrono and throws the game

              cyka gamburger give techies

                No, he's ok -- weak early, godlike late, just like most hard carries.

                76561198053522702

                  Six slotted Medusa- best waifu!

                  AbsolutMango

                    We outnumbered you. We outnumber them all!

                    Alyosha

                      I think taking away diffusal on lancer would be the perfect nerf
                      He can still build powerful items and his pushing is still there... takes away any earlygame snowball ability without a major nerf

                      Feeder Chan

                        Actually Albino, that would basically break PL.

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                        Terrible

                          He is just mad because he can't play the hero.

                          Dipshit

                            "I think taking away diffusal on lancer would be the perfect nerf
                            He can still build powerful items and his pushing is still there... takes away any earlygame snowball ability without a major nerf "
                            The same is achieved by getting a bkb. Bkb blocks diffusal damage.

                            Luxon

                              Phantom Lancer
                              51.68%
                              why are you mad?

                              Totentanz to The King: M ...

                                The thing you guys don't understand is ganking him 1-2 times during the laning stage is not shutting him down. Not at all. If you truly want to do that you will need to have an aggresive trilane which just won't happen if you are playing solo.

                                nami

                                  For PL's presence to be felt, he needs much more than a diffusal blade. He only really makes an impact with 3 cores and before that he isn't really gamebreaking so he does have quite a big window of opportunity to shut him down.

                                  team fuck sucks

                                    Nope. He's not much of a threat early, so the enemy has to be dominating a 4v5 fight for him to become relevant. Unlike Anti-Mage, PL can be ganked easily simply by buying dust.

                                    If he's allowed to farm and get his items, then he becomes a problem. But the early game, he's defenseless and relies heavily on his team.

                                    BoJack

                                      the problem is that diffusal on him is just too powerful. if he gets it early, its basically gg.

                                      waku waku

                                        it's impoossible to win aganist him if i don't pick carry or just someone that can push good cause my teammates do not and then get owned by pl with diffusal and heart of tarrasque

                                        sano

                                          ^
                                          translation: it's impossible to win against him because my team sucks

                                          reason you are wrong: it's impossible to win against any hero if your team sucks

                                          Emilimia

                                            ^void says hi

                                            logic

                                              incorrect, i carry erryone even if they suck,

                                              Dipshit

                                                "translation: it's impossible to win against him because my team sucks

                                                reason you are wrong: it's impossible to win against any hero if your team sucks"
                                                That's not a reason that they are wrong. That's just not a reason that it's op.

                                                Slammer

                                                  I get fucking pissed when I lose to a PL cause my team never understands the concept of CONSTANTLY GANK HIM. FUCK. I hate playing against that DAMN hero.

                                                  Low Expectations

                                                    Pick bloodseeker makes PL sad.

                                                    kord1g

                                                      I think the hero is not that strong. Really he needs so much in a skill level game. After his diff, he despretly needs to make a manta and heart, and if so, he is still killable with detection by any other well farmed carry. And many of the games, PL won't even farm those items.
                                                      But i must agree that his lategame is unstopablle, which makes the hero balanced.

                                                      Slammer

                                                        http://dotabuff.com/matches/360239794 another fucking loss against that cunt of a hero. What patch was ganking removed in? I WARNED the team but fuck me right? What do I know?

                                                        King of Low Prio

                                                          I dont think PL has anything to do with you losing that game

                                                          Quick maffs

                                                            Agree. Its seems like a stomp to me.

                                                            N4

                                                              LETS TALK ABOUT DEATH PROPHET INSTEAD?

                                                              6_din_49

                                                                Phantom Lancer 51.60%
                                                                Lich 57.31%

                                                                Which hero is unbalanced?

                                                                Slammer

                                                                  Phantom lancer had everything to do with us losing that game. And Dorkly that wasn't a stomp. This is what a stomp looks like: http://dotabuff.com/matches/330472490

                                                                  waku waku

                                                                    did he make your antimage have the lowest gold per minute

                                                                    Slammer

                                                                      Yes by killing him a lot?

                                                                      waku waku

                                                                        i watched your game out of curiosity and he actually was solo aganist skywrath who harassed him out of lane, yet he did not get magic resist until level 4 anyway
                                                                        i's hard to think that you know it's not his fault and not just behave like a complete faggot to see people's reactions

                                                                        Slammer

                                                                          Damn and now I got an abandon due to a family emergency. It is not the night for me.

                                                                          ZoePound

                                                                            Hey guys guess what. PL is not OP. Never was. Icefrog agrees with me because he didnt nerf him.

                                                                            ^_^

                                                                              I've played a lot of pl games and he isn't that op, he's a super farm dependant hero, all the items he needs to build are expensive, both battlefury and butterfly counter him (building mkb isn't at all ideal on him since your illusions don't get truestrike dmg) he's a hero that typically doesn't want to build bkb. and is an expensive hero on your team since he will soak up a lot of farm from split pushing. the thing is you don't need to beat pl you just need to beat the ppl on his team and not allow pl to roam around and farm freely. if you are losing to pls with only a diffusal and yasha 30 mins in the game, you're playing dota wrong.

                                                                              Totentanz to The King: M ...

                                                                                Says the guy with 82.14% winrate and 6.09 KDA on PL. Yeah dude we believe you.

                                                                                Terrible

                                                                                  A lot of heroes can shut down PL in the lane without resorting to an aggressive tri-lane, and they can continue to pester him around for most of the game, and this has been made a LOT easier now that tranqs aren't viable on him. QoP/Timber are extremely effective against him in the lane, and once they hit level 7 or so they can completely fuck with him. BH is the same, gets dunked in the lane if PL has support, but he just needs Phase Boots and he can keep killing a lone PL until PL picks up a Manta or a HoT. Not to mention just how scary other heroes are to PL once he is tracked he is super vulnerable.

                                                                                  He also can't enter team fights until he picks up a HoT unless his team is really far ahead, so many times I've seen chubby Alchemists/Na'ix/Gyro just walk into fights and wreck shit and PL can simply throw his nuke and run back to his fountain.

                                                                                  That's not to say that PL is weak later on in the game, but he certainly isn't unbeatable. He has his strengths, and weaknesses too, I find him balanced, and I'm not about to rethink my decision by looking at some shitty normal bracket match with AM + PA on the same team.

                                                                                  kord1g

                                                                                    and what does that 82.14% winrate says to you? For me it sounds like - ppl are BAD.
                                                                                    I also had 80+ winrate on him, till i tried him 2 cm games, and noticed that he is so selfish hero. Lost the 2 of them ( one where i had ping +300, nvm) but it's easy to see that he is not that strong of a hero even if he wins pubs like hell.
                                                                                    And I completly agree with this guy above. Naix can farm a 14 minutes phase - drums - armlet, and just 1v5 opposing team, where can PL with the same farm, can only watch his team dying, dealing 200 damage per 10 secounds.

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                                                                                    Rangepure

                                                                                      when you can make people rage from a 5 v 3 because you have a diffusal blade on pl i think there is a problem

                                                                                      Terrible

                                                                                        Probably helps that you were playing in the normal bracket against 3 players with less than 50% win rate that never ganked you. Any decent players would have killed you 10+ times, with a simple SB charge + dust and someone else tagging along, you don't stand a chance.

                                                                                        But since we are on the topic of super low skill games

                                                                                        http://dotabuff.com/matches/188767190

                                                                                        Die twice in the first 10 minutes because top rune is warded and Huskar gets x2 Haste runes (although I hide on the first one so tower kills him after I die, Huskar was bot but tried to gank me quite a lot). Team feeds and most leave at around the 12 minute mark. so op le normal bracket game