"There is really no reason to get AC on Kunkka. AS isn't very important, it gives no damage and tidebringer doesn't need the aoe minus armor to be effective, as it already ignores armor. Never get this. "
Seriously ? once upon a time i was against a TA with desolator and a Elder Titan, my armor was so low that she two shot me or something, until i got AC.
Personally i think kunkka does need AC like a defensive item sometimes, the same with bkb.
Sure, 15+ armor can be very useful when facing tons of physical damage, but it's a VERY expensive 15 armor. If there's a major need for armor I'd much rather get a support to go vlads than get an AC myself.
Perhaps "never" is an exaggeration, but it is very, very rare that it's worth it to spend 5250g in order to gain 15 armor.
Hey what about linkens ? i saw sing getting it a lot of times and seems good for mana regen plus stats.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/534782174
That rapier is mine, i just cant play a kunkka game without getting a rapier, one day i will get a one hit rampage
one day
Yeah, I forgot about linken's, I've added it to the situational items now (along with a small pros and cons, a small introduction to the abilities and starting items).
| Oh right, forgot about that as well. Bah.
V
Duuuude when your next items are 3 divines you kind need something to defend yourself you know.
Per favore Accedi per inviare commenti.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/8/89/Kunkka.png[/img]
[Color=#ffff00]Introduction:[/Color]
Kunkka is a melee strength hero which excels at being useful throughout the entire game and can provide tons of value to a large variety of lineups. The skill set makes him a hero which can be difficult to master, but on the other hand the skills scale incredibly well if you manage to utilize them properly.
Kunkka can be played as a first position farmer or as a mid. In this guide I'll mostly cover the solo mid Kunkka, but I'll mention things about the first position as well.
[Color=#ffff00]Pros and cons:[/color]
+ Good base strength and strength gain (24 + 3.0/level).
+ The abilities are great, have a short cooldown AND synergize really well with each other.
+ Scales really well with items.
+ The combination of good abilities and good scaling with items makes Kunkka scary at any point of the game.
- Missing abilities will severely reduce Kunkka's game impact.
- The base movement speed of 300 isn't the greatest, but it isn't awful either.
- The low base armor along with the low agility gain (1.3/level) makes Kunkka vurnurable to harassment during the laning phase
[Color=#ffff00]The abilities:[/color]
Torrent - A skillshot which, after two seconds delay (0,4s on cast animation, 1,6s delay on the ability), shoots up affected targets in the air for 1,53 seconds and slowing for 35%. Keep in mind that some of the damage occurs instantly and the remainder is inflicted while the target is in the air. The mana cost, cooldown, range and radius remains the same at all ranks, meanwhile damage and slow duration scales per rank. Damage is 120+60/rank and slow is 1 second per rank.
Tidebringer allows Kunkka to hit with increased damage and cleave for one offensive strike. The damage bonus is 15+/level, the cooldown is at 13 at level 1 and reduces with 3 seconds/rank and the radius is at 500 for the first 3 ranks, increasing to 600 at rank 4. There are two things that are very important to note:
1: The effect doesn't get removed on denying - abuse this as much as possible.
2: The damage from the cleave effect is only reduced by armor type - not the armor value.
X marks the spot, the ability which makes Kunkka's other abilities "work". This ability returns the target (can be cast on allies) to the position he was when the ability was casted. The delay of returning is 1 second/rank and the range is 500 at rank 1, increasing with 150 per rank. The cooldown is always 13 seconds and mana cost is always 80. Targets activating bkb or using abilities such as phase shift after being X'd will not return to the location.
Two ranks is optimal for returning with torrent, as it has 2s delay, and three ranks is optimal for combinating with boat, as it has 3,07s delay.
Kunkka's ultimate is Ghost ship, a very unique ability. The ghost ship starts 1000 range behind Kunkka and, after 3,07 seconds, crashes 1000 range ahead of the cast location. The boat stuns in a 425 radius for 1,4 seconds, dealing 400/500/600 damage. It also buffs teammates, giving them 10% bonus movement speed and 50% damage reduction, which will be dealt when the buff expires - however, it is non-lethal, will be dealt over time and will not break consumables. It has an incrdibly low cooldown of 60, minus 10 seconds per rank, and the mana cost is 150/200/250.
Note that the boat isn't 425 radius big, so the affected area is bigger than the boat itself.
[Color=#ffff00]Skill builds:[/Color]
There are several ways to skill Kunkka. I will cover the ones I find most useful here, but don't be afraid to experiment with them on your own.
[Color=#ffff00]SB #1 - The boat focused skill build[/Color]:
W - Q - E - E - E - R - max W - max Q (with ulti ranks when available)
The pros of this skill build is that you have a HUGE kill potential at lvl 6, making support rotations towards the mid lane pretty much guarantee a kill. You can also rotate to sidelanes once the ulti is available, for killing crucial cores of the opponents team. The three points in X makes it possible to X > boat > torrent with ease. Also, with only one point in tidebringer you won't perma push your lane.
The cons of this build is the weakened lane presence. With the 1p tidebringer you won't be able to zone your opponent that much, and it also makes the lasthitting a bit harder.
[Color=#ffff00]SB #2 - The more all-round skill build[/Color]:
W - Q - W - E - E - R - W - W - E - max Q (with ulti ranks when available)
This skill build is very similiar to the previous one. The main difference is that you get a stronger laning phase with the earlier tidebringer ranks, but at the same time your boat will be harder to hit (the combo is now X > torrent > boat, which gives the opponent a bit of time to get away if he has escape mechanisms).
[Color=#ffff00]SB #3 - The "wreck lane" skill build[/Color]:
W - Q - W - E - W/E - W/E - W - R - E - max Q (with ulti ranks when available)
With this skill build you aim at harassing your opponent as much as possible with early tidebringer ranks and, as soon as 2p in X is up, casual X > torrent combos into tidebringer hits. This skill build is very, very good against squishy heroes with low sustainability, especially if you manage to control runes (which you should, with the perma push from tidebringer).
The main con is the delayed team fight potential with the delayed boat rank. I wouldn't go for this skill build unless I know the game is going to be very static for the first ten minutes or so.
[Color=#ffff00]SB #4 - The kill-oriented tri/duo skill build[/Color]:
Q - W - Q - W - W - R - W - Q - Q - 3p into E (with ulti ranks when available)
This skill build is only viable in tri/duo lanes and it is absolutely essential that you have some form of torrent setup (SD, rubick, cm etc). The goal is quite self-explanatory: Try to cleave as many heroes as possible on creep lasthits, hit combos whenever an opponent is out of position or they've been harassed enough.
The cons of this skill build is that you can't combo on your own for a long, long time. Due to this, the kill potential during support rotations is very low.
[Color=#ffff00]When to use what skill build[/Color]:
There are quite a few things to consider when choosing skill build. Here's a list of what I find most important to take into account:
- The team setups (what is your team's/opponent's goal? How will the game flow?)
- How strong of a laner are you up against (i.e. how many tidebringer ranks will be needed to perform well in the lane)?
- How many escape mechanisms/defensive abilities do your opponents have? (i.e. will lvl 6 boat be effective? Can you initiate properly?)
- What is your main purpose in this game? Are you the main initiator? First or second position farmer? Is the team relying heavily on your team fight impact?
The general idea I usually go after in the laning phase is the following:
- If I'm up against a laner which has no escape mechanism and is fairly squishy - go with SB #1 and kill asap when boat is up.
- If I'm up against a strong laner with good harassment and which is hard to bring down (QoP, invoker, OD etc) - go with SB #3 and focus on performing well in the laning phase.
- If the opponent is very balanced (i.e. you need some lane presence, but not an extreme amount) - go with SB #2.
You have to take into account how the game will develop, though. You can't skip out on boat if you know there will be a lot of rotations within the 5 and 15 minute marks, no matter if you're on the aggressive or the defensive side. It is just too valuable to leave out if it will be a lot of forced fights early on.
There are some exceptions when the boat can be left out for quite a bit. If your opponents have tons of escape mechanisms as well as defensive abilities (defensive disruptions, defensive imprisonment, phase shift etc), the boat will usually be very hard to hit and therefore it can be left out until level 9-10 or so (2p at lvl 11 is crucial though). This happens very seldom though.
One side note regarding the skill builds in general: I tend to stop skilling X at rank 3 (even at level 25). The reason for this is that with 3p in X the X > boat > torrent combo is very easy to hit compared to if you have rank 4. Getting rank 4 over stats, getting rank4 at lvl 25 or not getting it at all is just a matter of taste.
[Color=#ffff00]Item builds:[/Color]
Kunkka is very unique when it comes to item builds, as he scales horribly with AS compared to raw damage (due to tidebringer). Therefore, the skill build is different from what we usually see from first and second positions.
[Color=#ffff00]Starting items:[/color]
OR
The first skill build is the classic bottle rush. You can add a gauntlet in there, if you feel the extra lasthitting power and health is needed.
. The stout shield is essential in such cases, considering the low base armor and armor gain mentioned previously. If you play as a first position Kunkka, you can add a salve to this build, making your sustain in your side lane a lot better.
The second skill build is prefered if you know you'll be bullied a lot on the lane, by heroes such as
Obviously, these can be changed due to circumstances (vs Zeus, batrider etc), but most starting items tend to be variations of these two.
[Color=#ffff00]Boots[/color]:
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/9/98/Phase_Boots_icon.png[/img][Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/6/67/Boots_of_Travel_icon.png[/img]
These are the two only options. Phase boots until 5-6 slotted, then replace them with boots of travel. The 24 damage bonus from phase is superior to any other boots stats for Kunkka until the lategame, where buyback+insta tps become an important factor.
[Color=#ffff00]Core items:[/color]
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/2/24/Daedalus_icon.png[/img]
According to me, this is the only real core item for Kunkka. The amount of damage for its cost is great and cleave crits can win a game by their own.
[Color=#ffff00]Optional items:[/color]
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/0/0f/Shadow_Blade_icon.png[/img]
Shadow blade is a solid item for Kunkka, providing damage boost on the invis hits, an escape mechanism as well as some decent stats. Many would probably consider this a core item, but due to the nature of this item (easily countered etc) I find that it sometimes won't have much of a game impact.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/7/72/Black_King_Bar_icon.png[/img]
Black king bar is really good for Kunkka. The stats are very benificial and the survivability it provides in team fights is more often than not going to be needed. The reason I place this as an optional item instead of a core is that in some games it won't be as effective due to A) the bkb won't provide much defense for you (against enigma, bm, abyssal blade(s), 1v5 against naga sleep etc) or B) there isn't many disables or aoes that you wan't to avoid. There aren't many games where bkb won't be useful though, so I recommend getting it in 9/10 games or more.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/9/91/Drum_of_Endurance_icon.png[/img]
Drum of endurance provides good stats overall and should be considered if A) your opponents have a lot of burst, B) the fights are often prolonged, making the 9+ int crucial, or C) there is going to be a lot of mid game action and you need to be cost effective.
[Color=#ffff00]Situational items:[/Color]
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/3/3b/Abyssal_Blade_icon.png[/img]
I usually don't get abyssal blade very often, because of two reasons: The games usually don't last long enough for me to get it (I rarely get it before 50 minute mark) or there is no need for it. Sure, +110 damage and 190 hp is massive for Kunkka, but it is VERY expensive. It is very useful against bkb carries though, so if it goes very late and your team needs the lockdown, go for it.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/b/b0/Monkey_King_Bar_icon.png[/img]
The proc isn't that great for Kunkka, considering we aren't opting for AS. The raw damage, however, is great for it's cost and the true strike is sometimes crucial versus those butterfly carries. If there's a need for the true strike, go for it, otherwise I'd rather get a second Daedalus over mkb.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/b/b1/Divine_Rapier_icon.png[/img]
This had to be here. One-hit rampages do happen, although not that often. This should only be considered as a last resort in my opinion - usually Daedalus stacking is the more safer way to go.
Linken's sphere is a really good pickup if you're skipping bkb, but since that won't happen that often, it's usage is limited. The regeneration it provides is good, but the overall stats are very expensive when compared to the drum. If you feel like you have a big need for the spell block, or your first position does, feel free to get it - otherwise the drum is usually a better choice.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/7/75/Heart_of_Tarrasque_icon.png[/img]
HoT provides a decent amount of damage and great sustain in fights, especially the prolonged ones. If you skip the bkb I'd say the HoT is a must, but since you won't do that in most of the cases the extra survivability isn't that useful (with exceptions), which makes an item with more damage a lot more useful instead of HoT.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/4/4c/Blink_Dagger_icon.png[/img]
Blink dagger might seem like an odd pickup on Kunkka, but it has its uses. If you can't get to cleave with shadow blade due to sentries/gem, you can X-mark yourself, blink in, cleave and safely get out. It also allows you to clear waves without risking getting caught, using the same method. It shouldn't be considered that early into the game though, as surprise cleaves won't have much of an impact if you don't have the damage to make those cleaves hurt. Consider buying it when you have two cores or so and you actually can make an impact with the surprise cleaves.
It has become more viable to Kunkka since the 6.80 patch, considering the mana cost has been removed. Kunkka has a basic mana pool of ~550 at level 16, and an entire combo costs 400 mana, which made the blink dagger hard to utilize previously without any item which adds intelligence.
And obviously it can be used to pick off opponents being out of position.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/5/58/Urn_of_Shadows_icon.png[/img]
Urn is good from a lot of perspectives. It's cheap, provides damage which can be very crucial at times, helps you sustain in pushes and is a good option to build if you get a gauntlet as one of your starting items. If you have a poor laning phase, though, go for the casual bracer (possibly into drum) over the urn, as your chances of getting good usage of urn obviously are smaller if your lane is rough.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/c/cc/Armlet_of_Mordiggian_inactive_icon.png[/img]
Armlet is a personal favourite for me. It should be considered if you need cost effective items to fight early on AND the fights won't be over within 5-10 seconds. The general idea is to toggle it on whenever tidebringer is ready, else keep it off. Gaining +56 damage on toggling, along with the basic +9 damage, can provide some really strong tidebringer hits in early fights - and it's only 2600 gold. However, the games where Armlet will be very useful is quite limited and therefore it should usually be skipped.
[Color=#ffff00]Items which should be disregarded:[/color]
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/c/c1/Battle_Fury_icon.png[/img]
Sure, you can cleave harder with battle fury, but I'd rather get any other item with more damage than this. The tidebringer is effective enough in both fights as well as farming, the extra cleave is a waste in my opinion.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/d/d3/Assault_Cuirass_icon.png[/img]
There is really no reason to get AC on Kunkka. AS isn't very important, it gives no damage and tidebringer doesn't need the aoe minus armor to be effective, as it already ignores armor. Never get this, unless the bonus armor is absolutely essential.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/5/5b/Hand_of_Midas_icon.png[/img]
Only AS and delays your damage gain. A big no.
[Color=#ffff00]Good heroes to have on your team[/color]
etc. Don't over commit on long cooldown wombo combos though, simply because Kunkka has very low cooldowns on his abilities (his ulti especially), making him a very solid choice in lineups which will force fights often.
There are multiple heroes which are good to have on your team along with Kunkka. For duo/tri lanes, the torrent setup is crucial, making heroes such as [Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/f/f3/Shadow_Demon_icon.png[/img][Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/8/8a/Rubick_icon.png[/img] very solid choices.
In team fights, you want heroes which can assist Kunkka in hitting the boat and torrent, either on multiple targets or one very important target. Heroes to consider for this is
[Color=#ffff00]Heroes you don't want to be up against[/color]
: Naix can avoid combos with rage, has tons of health to survive through tidebringer hits and without shadow blade you have no way to escape from open wounds (and even if you have it, a dust will be your death). A pain to be up against.
: Kunkka has no proper way to get rid of refraction (and therefore no way to kill Lanaya without assistance) and Lanaya is also a very hard lane opponent, if played properly.
Kunkka is a very versatile hero with few weaknesses, but there are some heroes which you simply don't want to be up against.
[Img]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/1/13/Puck_icon.png[/img]: Phase shift counters combos in fights and tidebringer hits in laning phase. Very annoying to be up against, but at the same time Puck most likely won't be able to kill you.
[Color=#ffff00]Heroes you DO want to be up against:[/color]
Abuse the tidebringer hits to clear spiderlings/treants for free gold. Also, if you catch a split pusher off guard, an X-combo plus a tidebringer hit (followed up by a couple of right clicks) usually is enough to bring them down.
Tidebringer is very effective against his illusions and PL can't avoid combos in any way if the team carries detection. One of the better counters to PL, in my opinion.
[Color=#ffff00]Suggested gameplay[/color]
I intended to post a video to conclude this post, but most of the videos I found was just rapier stacking, which is pointless to watch in my opinion. If you want to look up gameplay by pros, I'd suggest Mushi and Sing, both play an excellent Kunkka.
That's all for now, if there's any interest I'll update the post with requested material (such as more heroes which are good/bad/decent to be up against; there's obviously a lot more heroes to be included under each section, I just don't have the time/drive to make a more complete list right now).