General Discussion

General DiscussionI'd like to see how better players handle low-tier games in order to ...

I'd like to see how better players handle low-tier games in order to learn something, so.. in General Discussion
Vertoxity

    So, I'll have a lot of free time upcoming and I managed to put my life in let's say good state.

    So I'd finaly I'd want to spent some time learning about my mistakes and improving my gameplay.

    I have no money and I don't thing I'd give money for DOTA anyway, so I can't afford any coaching sessions or stuff like that.

    I don't actually care that much about MMR, since I know it comes with improving.

    But, I struggle to get better even that I'm aware of some of my mistakes.

    So what I ask is:

    Does somebody have free time to play at least 10 games on my ACC?(ranked, current raiting about 3.4k, average raiting about 3.7k, highest 3992)

    Why do I ask this? I'd like to see some expirianced players how would they handle games I find hard to win! I want to analise later those replays and learn from them.

    If you're interested, let me know, I'll give you my login info, but let's make something clear:

    In order to get my login-info, you have to:

    Have at least higher then 4.5k mmr, so I can actually learn something from you.
    Have fair amount of games on main ACC and play mid or some heroes that I play.
    It would be good if person is active on Dotabuff aswell, but it's not that important.

    Just to make something clear:

    If you try to scam me, that's not gonna happen. I'll do all nessesery stuff to protect me and the only way we'll do this is if you want to help someone, not to try to rober him!

    So try not to waste my and your time for scam and stuff like that.

    For return, I can give you some items I guess if that's nessesery, but worth must be flat 2k(keys), not higher, since I don't have much of items anyway..

    I'm from Serbia, so if someone is from Serbia and wants to help me, amazing.

    My english is decent, but speaking on native language is always better option for me!

    Jay Ashborne

      What's your solo/party. I can teach you to climb 3-4 with coaching for free.

      Vertoxity

        My solo party is 3400/3400 at this moment, however, I have no problems grinding all the way to the 3700 MMR.

        Games are easier on 3.4k and I lost a lot of games these days since I didn't play my best heroes.

        I got smurf at 4.3k aswell,.

        Jay Ashborne

          Havoc would more than willing be happy to help you climb as well. Youd need his word on it tho.

          Jay Ashborne

            I wouldnt pitch your credentials around, but I think there are a few of us willing to help you for free. Support/carry/mid?

            Questo commento è stato modificato
            Vertoxity

              Havoc and I had a fight couple weeks ago, and after that he refuses to communicate with me.

              Maybe I was a little rude to him, but that's just my opinion, I didn't do that because I'm frustrated as he belives.

              If he's interested to help me out, that would be great!

              However, I belive he's not interested.

              Vertoxity

                For the part Support-carry-mid:

                I play most of the time mid or carry. I'm not much of a support player and I don't enjoy playin' hardcore supports.

                However, I DO play sometimes Tidehunter and Earthshaker, often as offlane.

                I don't need advices on heroes as much as I need advices on game-sense or decision making/farming paterns and lane control..

                Jay Ashborne

                  Sure can do. What times are you most active? I cant do it tonight sadly I have practice for league in a few hours, but tomorrow I'm open, feel free to add me I will be on all day tomorrow, just send me a message and you'll solo queue during which I will take game notes in which we evaluate your decisions and I comment on your play and we can follow with replay review and talk about it.

                  I wont play for you however, but I am more than willing to help you work your way out of your bracket. You are a more productive path than half the other people that bitch on this forum are (excluding regulars). So you're taking the right step regardless.

                  bum farto

                    1. This is free boosting IMO and not an "experiment".
                    2. I do this already for people I coach and winning is cancerous but easy enough to do. 3-4K is pretty easy to win.
                    3. I have done this for people in the past but..... these are people I have coached personally and feel are ready to be moved up a tier without struggling themselves so I do take it upon myself (with their permission) to do 10 ranked games or calibrate their smurfs. You would simply default back on your stock Shadow Fiend so someone ranking your account for 10 games would do nothing but give you a much needed boost so under these conditions I wouldn't do it.

                    Lets make this clear, this is not a personal attack on you but until you're willing to take critcism and move away completely from your comfort zone you will not learn or improve and this is something that has been proven time and time again.

                    ....unless your comfort hero is meepo or earth spirit which it sadly isn't.

                    Vertoxity

                      I'll be active all day/night long, however, it most of the time depends on my mode.

                      I'll add you later, thanks for help!

                      Jay Ashborne

                        Oh lawd, sf. I don't even draft that hero for our mid lol. Risk<Safe

                        bum farto

                          I have been pretty much offline for like a month now due to holiday planning with only the occasional game here and there. I would be more than happy to help you with game guidance but last time I got very frustrated with you ignoring things you were told and even disputing sound advice that I repeatedly gave you. If you have FINALLY reached an accepting stage then I am happy to help you but not till I get home

                          Vertoxity

                            You're wrong. I don't need free boosting service, I just need to see how better players would handle lower-tier games, I'm just curious.

                            Ofc, I'll be back to my Shadow Fiend since I like that hero, what's so bad about that? He's weak, he's squishy and stuff, but hey, I like him, okay?

                            As much time as I need, it's still okay for me. I'd rather be good player as Shadow Fiend and be happy that way.

                            I am willing to take cricism, but sadly, you don't do any analise of my gameplay, AT ALL.

                            We played couple of times and you belive you know everything about my gameplay already.

                            " do take it upon myself (with their permission) to do 10 ranked games or calibrate their smurfs. You would simply default back on your stock Shadow Fiend so someone ranking your account for 10 games would do nothing but give you a much needed boost so under these conditions I wouldn't do it."

                            One more time, no. It's not about that.

                            Now is 1.2.2015, I'll have my 3.7k raiting back until next week, and I'll prove you it's not about FREE bosting, I don't care about that.

                            I can grind my mmr to 3.7, I can't grind MMR past 4k and I need help, that's all.

                            I'd like to see how people can handle my games, what would they DO.

                            One more thing, I watched PD Juice replays playin' Storm Spirit for grinding his experimental ACC from 2.9 to 5k, but this does not shows me much since I don't like Storm spirit that much.

                            I am tryin' to learn new stuff and to improve, I struggle these days and I need help, that's all.

                            If you want to help, thank you.

                            If you don't want to help, just stay away from this tread since you're not helping.

                            Jay Ashborne

                              @havoc/dude
                              Flat up honest with you dude, havoc is better than me (and 90% of this forum) I'd listen to his advice. You'll learn more from him than me.

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                              Vertoxity

                                Yes, I can get frustrated(we all do, huh). I tend to stick to my guns so hard sometimes, but hey, that's just me.

                                I have no problems learning NEW heroes if that's nessesery, as you can see, I don't play much of SF these days, It's not like i INSTA-PICK him all the time anymore.

                                But I don't want to LET GO OF HIM! :)

                                I like him, I fucking like the hero. We can' argue about that, okay? :- P

                                Okay, I'll wait for you to get home. But helping me out is not only about playin' with me or watchin' you play.

                                I'd be thankful to have some time to speak with me.

                                Since I got tons of questions and I have no answers for them.

                                Belive it or not, I know most of my mistakes. I just don't know how to fix them.

                                Also, just keep in mind we played on EU WEST, where I got big lag for SF, since I rely on Shadow Razes during lane phase a lot ,and if I can't land them good I do fail.

                                Vertoxity

                                  M E L O DY, I know that already. I value him as a player. He just have wrong opinion about me, that's all.

                                  He dislikes my Shadow Fiend without any reson actually.

                                  He thinks that SF brings me down, and he might be right about that, however, beign right and helping out is not the same thing.

                                  bum farto

                                    "You're wrong. I don't need free boosting service, I just need to see how better players would handle lower-tier games, I'm just curious."

                                    How do you think we do? http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1107734009 last game in High Skill, hit random, went offlane, won the game. It's not to say that every game is super easy as sometimes the teams your with go out of control and you lose but that's what happens. I will give you a piece of advice..

                                    Play super aggressively and it will win you most of the time. Last hit a creep right click the hero, last hit a creep right click the hero. Repeat till low then lunge with skills. Ever wonder why wisp stacks are so god damn effective? They rely on massive amounts of crazed early aggression, which fails sometimes but pays off most of the time.

                                    Vertoxity

                                      "I got very frustrated with you ignoring things you were told and even disputing sound advice that I repeatedly gave you."

                                      I don't remeber this, however, it might be because I already told you my sound is off during games most of the time.

                                      I actually remeber asking you is it okay to turn-off the sound, and you didn't say a thing about that, so I assumed you have nothing against it.

                                      bum farto

                                        Your Shadow Fiend isn't bad but your Shadow Fiend is your 3K comfort zone, every time you play that hero you slump back into your 3k seat and you will only leave that seat by leaving that hero, then come back to it once you're well into your climb where you will realize stuff that needs reworking.

                                        Want 4k? Leave your "Ain't Bad" 3K shadow fiend behind.

                                        Jay Ashborne

                                          Vouch^

                                          Vertoxity

                                            ^
                                            ^

                                            Havoc, okay, I get it. But I don't need help for high-skill bracket. As I said, I'll have my 3.7k back soon, I struggle past 3.7, I have no problems getting out of 3.4k.

                                            Most of the games I lost is not because I would'nt be able to win, it's because I got bored/lazy/defocused and stuff like that.

                                            I picked Pudge without any reason, for example. I was into mood for him, however, pick was bad.

                                            Playin' super aggressivly is good advice, I will try that out! Thanks for that.

                                            For the end:

                                            http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1133477519
                                            http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1133410271

                                            I know games are a lot easier in high skill bracket.

                                            I have no problem with that, one more time.

                                            Playin' in normal skill bracket:

                                            http://www.dotabuff.com/players/97655206/matches?date=&faction=&hero=shadow-fiend&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

                                            That was on my friend's acc, 2.7-2.9k mmr.

                                            http://www.dotabuff.com/players/117612094/matches?date=&faction=&hero=slark&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

                                            Another friend (he's about 3000-3200 MMR)

                                            So as you can see, I have no problems playin' in really low-tier games, since mistakes there cost so much less.

                                            I can do stupid stuff-go super-stupid items and still win.

                                            Vertoxity

                                              Havoc, okay. I will take your advice.

                                              From today I won't play a single fucking Shadow fucking fiend game for 2 weeks.

                                              Give me some things to work on. Give me some mid hero to work on. Point me out what to do, and I'll try to do my best.

                                              Thank you for reading me out and hearing me out, and, helping me out, lol. :)

                                              One more thing:

                                              I don't want 4k. If 4k is all I wanted, I would stop playin' ranked when I had like 3992 or some shit. It would be good enough for me.

                                              As you can see, I ONLY and 95% of the time play ranked, and its all SOLO.

                                              I want to be active-ranked player, not 4k(huh, that's enough kind of dude).

                                              My theory about MMR:

                                              Having 5000 and playin' on 5000 MMR is not the same thing.

                                              What makes you 5k player(or any type of number of MMR) is AMOUNT of games played in that bracket, not the NUMBER!

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                                              Coolie

                                                HIT CREEPS BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE HITS CREEPS LOL!

                                                bum farto

                                                  Use me as a catalyst....

                                                  Heroes keeping me at 4.8 - Mirana, Doom, Legion Commander

                                                  Heroes that will get me to 5K - Jakiro, Centaur, Venomancer

                                                  Mindsets and execution change with heroes, step out of that comfort zone and you will fail a bit till you find what succeeds then stick with it.

                                                  Vertoxity

                                                    Yeah, easy in theory. Harder in gamez. :p

                                                    bum farto

                                                      With MMR you can fake it till you make it, I know plenty of people in 5K+ who smurfed their way there who I could play into the ground if I ever met them in game. Then there are players who earned their worth, some of which I have coached who are now strong contenders and continue to climb because they moved their mindsets as much as their heroes, and playstyles.

                                                      Examples of this are DD Sama, Drophar, Violet (Slim), Mekazrium etc. who battled till they made it and now they relax for the most part and play the game as they want because their gameplay has made a permanent switch.

                                                      Vertoxity

                                                        Use me as a catalyst....

                                                        "Heroes keeping me at 4.8 - Mirana, Doom, Legion Commander

                                                        Heroes that will get me to 5K - Jakiro, Centaur, Venomancer

                                                        Mindsets and execution change with heroes, step out of that comfort zone and you will fail a bit till you find what succeeds then stick with it."

                                                        Wow, this was nice advice. Thank you for that.

                                                        I totaly forgot about my BIGGEST flaw.

                                                        It's PICKING!

                                                        I tend to fail so fucking much on picking.

                                                        For exampe, this game:

                                                        http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1134349485

                                                        I last-picked tide-hunter because I belived we needed aoe stun. However, it didnt end-up well since I went on offlane with Lesbian commander.

                                                        I tend to pick stupid heroes most of the times, and when the game starts I realise how much stupid it is.

                                                        When game ends, I realise that this could be won if I picked some smarter shit..

                                                        Vertoxity

                                                          Nah, fake till you make it does-not work for me. It's not good enough.

                                                          I want to take things serious and improve with my best Heroes.

                                                          I have no problems learning new heroes and new style of gameplay, but I want to improve by hard-work, not by making some smurf.

                                                          As I said, I got smurf on 4.3k, it's a lot easier to play there then here, team-mates are better, but I don't care about that.

                                                          I want to get there on this acc.

                                                          I also thing that playin' SF on sub VH/high 3k is gamble, and it might bring me down, since I do rely on wards/helping from team to get out of control with SF.

                                                          One good gank and I got demoralised and destroyed. Playin' Shadow Fiend in higher-tier games is a lot more relaxed.

                                                          Everyone knows what is their job, and if I fail sometimes, it does-not cost me the game.

                                                          bum farto

                                                            Issue is this is something that you will have to do on your own, as most of your heroes that you have over 20+ games with are not very strong.

                                                            For support try - Jakiro, Ogre, and Omniknight and play at least 10 games with them even if you lose them all.
                                                            For Carrying try - Antimage, Void, Sven
                                                            For Offlane try - Jakiro, Tide, Centaur
                                                            For Mid try - Storm, QoP, PA
                                                            For Jungle try - Axe, Bloodseeker

                                                            Test those out for about 5-10 games each

                                                            Less shadowblade more blink or force or both. Drums, blademail, tranquil boots. Never underestimate the scaling advantage these items give you.

                                                            EDIT: Test out Witch Doctor.

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                                                            bum farto

                                                              Also while melody disagrees try my secret winner http://www.dotabuff.com/players/90503334/matches?date=&faction=&hero=wraith-king&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

                                                              It's so underused and so massively strong. Personally currently at 67% winrate with 5KDA, top 200 and constantly rising he might be worth a shot.

                                                              Vertoxity

                                                                For support try - Jakiro, Ogre, and Omniknight and play at least 10 games with them even if you lose them all.

                                                                Jakiro is good, Ogre is amazing, Omni.. I suck with him, but I will try it out.

                                                                For Carrying try - Antimage, Void, Sven

                                                                Holy shit! I totaly forgot how good Sven is. Void and AM is also okay.

                                                                For Mid try - Storm, QoP, PA(I have no idea how to play PA mid, to be honest.. I need to work on my Storm aswell)

                                                                Less shadowblade more blink or force or both. Drums, blademail, tranquil boots. Never underestimate the scaling advantage these items give you.

                                                                Yeah, I do think that scaling advantage on blink/force is a lot less. I know it's wrong and stupid mindset, but still, I do that.

                                                                Will try to work that out.

                                                                WD is amazing, I know..

                                                                Vertoxity

                                                                  Yeah, WD is good. But I don't know how to farm with this guy. He's so fucking slow. : D

                                                                  Spierdalaj

                                                                    GIFF ME UR LOGIN AND PASSWORD
                                                                    ILL PLAY MAPO SO I GUESS U PASS

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                                                                    Jay Ashborne

                                                                      Havoc my carry has a better WK winrate. Use his build instead Kappa. But we are 4.x k trash so yeh. lol.

                                                                      http://www.dotabuff.com/players/86087101

                                                                      Vertoxity

                                                                        Playin' Meppo won't help me at all, sorry.

                                                                        I suck with him and I don't think I'd be able to learn him that easy.

                                                                        He's just totaly different from what I play.

                                                                        Maybe if you have time to help me out with him, but be aware, I'm like flat 2.5k or less with meppo.

                                                                        I have no idea how to play that hero other then sending all meppoes to target and hoping my poof/auto attack will do the job.

                                                                        After that I probably fail to micro low-hp meppo but if I do, I'll send him to reheal and do this stuff over and over again.

                                                                        It might work on super low mmr, but other then that, it's like a ticket to 2k mmr.

                                                                        sano

                                                                          I don't need to play in your account to show you how I'd play in lower skill bracket.

                                                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/940430680
                                                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/927702519
                                                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1133856352

                                                                          sano

                                                                            first and second one were in ~2.5k bracket, last one was in ~3.8k (lowest very high skill possible)

                                                                            Vertoxity

                                                                              I'd rather work on heroes I know how to play at least decentish for my MMR.

                                                                              That would be 80% of heroes Havoc mentionted.

                                                                              Vertoxity

                                                                                Lower VH is 3680.

                                                                                Showing me out this matches is nothing new, since I'd be able to do this with my SF/Slark/Pudge/Void/Terroblade/Riki/ES most of the time on normal-skill bracket and I already PROVED that.

                                                                                So why would you show me stuff like this?

                                                                                Last game as TA(vh-normal skill bracket) is not the same as ranked VH 3.8k, since you'll have bigger gap between player skil then in ranked(100% confirmed) - since i got VH skill bracket in normal aswell and people I added to check their mmr was 4.5k or higher aswell as 3.7k or lower.

                                                                                One more thing, I wanted 10 matches with a reason. To see how would that person handle tough games. Not only stomps.

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                                                                                sano

                                                                                  Showing you matches is nothing new, so they have to be in your profile so you get some mmr? What's your point

                                                                                  These weren't stomps, if you had the replay of my Naga game you would see my team fed so much we actually lost a rax before I could carry the game. The TA game as well, it was me soloing the other team without any help. All my potm did was walk around and die to Slark. Just because my scores are high this doesn't mean they were easy games, and you probably wouldn't have won neither.

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                                                                                  Vertoxity

                                                                                    Weren't stomps?

                                                                                    Wait:

                                                                                    Now you're telling me it's my mistake that i wrecked the shit out of their midder in sub 3k raiting?

                                                                                    I should let them kill me 10 times in order to prove you I can do all the things you did?

                                                                                    What makes you think I actually need some help in games I showed you?

                                                                                    Did you watched replay? Did you checked all games? Wtf?

                                                                                    You came with 3 games and started with additude: "he wants free mmr boost".

                                                                                    No, I don't want free MMR boost.

                                                                                    I probably wouldn't have won neither? Oh, wait?

                                                                                    So I got like 6 KDA on SF and 90% winrate because I got lucky? How's that?

                                                                                    bum farto

                                                                                      @Melody 100% stacking vs 30% stacking same basic build but he rushes BKB/MKB which I now avoid, even stopped building drums in favor of other items to scale him later.

                                                                                      EDIT: Is that your stack or is that your account, or is that your friends I am confused here?

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                                                                                      Vertoxity

                                                                                        So yeah, this is why I get mad and I argue with people like him.

                                                                                        He cames to show me stupid things I already can do and he's tryin' to tutor me I can't.

                                                                                        Holy shit, he's even comparing 2.5k MMR vs 3.7k MMR like it's the same fucking thing.

                                                                                        And I should spare my time explainng to you that I can handle 95% of the games in 2.5k with my SF?

                                                                                        Why would I do that?

                                                                                        Nah.

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                                                                                        bum farto

                                                                                          To a high tier 4k, or 5k player 3.7 or 2k is almost the same thing practically. You have to look at what goes on after you win mid, winning mid doesn't win the game and this is where a lot of players fall over. Winning your lane in the first 10 minutes of the game has little impact on the game overall past 30+ minutes though it can help if you know how to use your advantage and momentum.

                                                                                          Vertoxity

                                                                                            "To a high tier 4k, or 5k player 3.7 or 2k is almost the same thing practically"

                                                                                            Legit high 4k - true, I agree. LEGIT. Not 300 wins smurf.

                                                                                            You have to look at what goes on after you win mid, winning mid doesn't win the game and this is where a lot of players fall over

                                                                                            True! I fall over on that too. I win mid, I got farm, I got items, I fail to take advantage and win the game.

                                                                                            THIS is why I want HELP! This is why I want to see how would HIGHER MMR players win tough games! Not because of +200 MMR boost I could archive anyway by myself.

                                                                                            I never said I'm having trouble grinding MMR to 3.7k. One more fucking time.

                                                                                            Winning your lane in the first 10 minutes of the game has little impact on the game overall past 30+ minutes though it can help if you know how to use your advantage and momentum.

                                                                                            True. I fail to use that most of the time when things got hard.

                                                                                            Trodlabundin

                                                                                              You should take what Havoc says for granted, cause he actually has ton of experience and usually knows what he's talking about.

                                                                                              Havoc used to help me when I was around the 3900-40something and that was to great effect.

                                                                                              I'm currently at 5552, and the way I think and play the game has changed totally. No offense, but honestly. People at 3k has no clue what they are doing. ACtually cchikkens whith their heads choppd off :crazy:

                                                                                              Shoutout to goodguy Havoc. What a great spoon of sugar that boy is.

                                                                                              EDIT:

                                                                                              qUoting OP

                                                                                              "Winning your lane in the first 10 minutes of the game has little impact on the game overall past 30+ minutes though it can help if you know how to use your advantage and momentum."

                                                                                              When you win your lane, you can take great advantage of it. The advantage you get will help you past 30minutes, but the thing is you are throwing the advantage you get cause you don't know how to abuse advantages.

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                                                                                              Vertoxity

                                                                                                C9, it's okay buddy! I agree with you with everything you wrote here!

                                                                                                I know you're right and that's why I want to improve!

                                                                                                I will deffinitly work-out on this Havoc said.

                                                                                                Havoc IS a good guy.

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                                                                                                Mekarazium
                                                                                                  Questo commento è stato rimosso da un moderatore
                                                                                                  Vertoxity

                                                                                                    Hitting ult as AA is hardest thing to do for me! :D

                                                                                                    Jay Ashborne

                                                                                                      @ Havoc that is the carry player in the stack in which I play on one of my alts to play SECS/TECS for lulz. I wouldn't want to use this account as it is well known and I try to avoid attention elsewhere.

                                                                                                      beld

                                                                                                        learn to farm. doesnt even matter what heroes the enemy have if it isnt doom. people below 4k cant farm at all