"When does a 5k MMR alchemist typically finish radiance" - 11-13 minutes
"Which wins more, Vlads first or Bfury first on antimage?" - Battlefury.
"Midas on AA really speed up the time to Aghs in practice" - About the same time as you're more active without it, more farm focused with it.
Now pay me $6 a month for this valuable info.
you go for vlads first as am only when u have a very rough start, which has a strong correlation with final outcome of the game. these stats are just biased initially.
I know you don't care about facts tripple, only your opinions. That's why you won't pay for them. Since you make decisions based on your personal feelings there is no point for you in even trying to gather or consider facts.
Everything has bias. That is no reason not to consider biased information understanding that bias.
bf first correlated with higher winrate compared to vlads first on am, is a fact.
my opinion, on the other hand, is that you are a fan of 1D, but i kinda keep it to myself normally.
I didn't intend for the thread to be about how to play anti-mage. But it is an interesting question.
Vlads was a final item for 2.7 million Anti-mages this month (54.7% winrate). Bfury was for 4.7 million (49.1% winrate). Clearly Bfury is far more popular and much less likely to succeed. While Bfury dramatically accelerates AM's farming rate, trying to get it in a tough game often ensures the game is lost before you can fight.
Antimage win rate is 46%, thus finishing your battlefury increases your win rate and since natural progression after that is vlads, if you are able to farm another 2k item you're more likely to win. It's not rocket science and by no means implies that going vlad's first is better.
today i matched with a player who is 99.99% chance account booster (he won 64 of his last 66 ranked games), anyways he had played alchemist and i checked he was playing alchemist many times.
anyways, from his last 10 alch games, his average radiance purchasing time is 12:30
his dotabuff profile : http://www.dotabuff.com/players/204429902
@Relentless: Please correct me if I am wrong but I always thought hand of midas is not only bought for money. For me its mainly for experience gain as AA ultimate improves really a lot with every lvl and this hero tends to kill a lot away from his experience range.
Vlads was a final item for 2.7 million Anti-mages this month (54.7% winrate). Bfury was for 4.7 million (49.1% winrate). Clearly Bfury is far more popular and much less likely to succeed.
Because only higher ranked AM's go Vlads, and lower MMR players will skew results by going BF brown boots.
A good AM will have the same winrate doing either first because they will know how to work it.
the only reason of vlads have more winrate than bfury on antimage is that vlads are bought later than bfury which means a more farmed anti mage (compared to antimage with only bfruy) therefore has more win rate
i personally dont even buy vlads to am. boots, bfury, straight to manta, then other dps items. imo regen from bfury is more than enough for farming, no need to waste 2k gold.
Their are a number of opinions on how to play anti-mage and a variety of possible implications of the indisputable fact that far more games end with AM having Bfury, and that games are much more likely won with AM having vlads.
But these stats do not tell us which items where purchased at what times and in which order. If we had that information we could do more than offer personal feelings about which to get first and in what situations. We also don't have MMR sorted information on who gets Vlads or Bfury, and we need it to know.
You can choose to guess based on what you personally do and what your friends do and what you have seen in a tiny handful of games.
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HoM in my opinion, can be very good for AA because I think it does help him get to level 16 faster and get Aghs (maybe faster?) by countering AA tendency to be away from fights and roam much more than farm. But maybe if you did not get HoM and played closer to the action it would be better. Maybe if you rushed Aghs it would be faster than getting HoM. Real game results for most players are not necessarily the same as what I have personally experienced.
The way I see it getting HoM can lock in a solid early start by ensuring that you will reach level 16 with Aghs even if the mid game falls apart. But maybe just getting the point booster and the ogre club would do the same thing and get to Aghs faster because you didn't waste 2k gold on an attack speed item for a hero that almost never right clicks after the laning phase... maybe you live through fights because you have 390 more hp so you level up faster than the tiny xp bonus from Midas. We need the data to prove it one way or the other.
I can't take Relentless serious after he tried to convert me to Christianity with his Catholic teology.
Anyway how would stats help? As havoc stated everything is being dropped down by low skill players so it's not like it matters
1. 80% of AM players (4k mmr) I've spectated goes naked battlefury, what do you think happens at lower mmr?
2. At highest mmr people buy Power Treads and all those nice items that make you a stronger laner before going battlefury
3. When I see people go Vlads first in 6k+ games, they skip battlefury and go right into manta.
I'm baffled and find it extremely stupid for you to believe going Vlads first over battlefury on ANTIMAGE with the stats we have today.
I don't believe in going Vlads first on Antimage. I merely used the example to show what stats are available and which could be... and I'm not Catholic.... which you would know if you knew what the words Catholic theology or teleology (whichever you intended to write) mean.
People that go naked bf on am are retarded, you're supposed to get atleast PT before you go battlefury, some get PMS other just keep stout shield.
^I've seen people play naga and go naked radience, sometimes even before brown boots.
I shake my head every fucking time I see that, by the time I have my radience I am out of slots because I've actually built to survive the laning stage and actually farm the jungle as well.
Naga is 1 of those carries I can't play because you need to micro constantly, especially after you get radiance.
What are the items you buy before radiance though? Bottle/Ring of Aquila and Arcane boots?
@Hanter:
Well, most games by the time I am getting radiance I will have:
1) Stout Shield -> PMS
2) Quelling Blade
3) Aquila
4) Bottle
5) Treads/Arcane Boots depending on whether it's a good octarine game or I'd prefer early stats
6) Radiance
By the time I get radiance though, I sell my PMS because I've obviously successfully survived the laning stage, I really want to have a slot for a TP at all times, and my hero's not supposed to be hit that much anyway unless I really fuck up, or I sell the quelling blade, it really depends on what I am mostly doing, the +6 agi is still nice even if you don't need the block from PMS.
But yeah, I don't play Naga despite really loving the hero, you really need that early rad or you're screwed (or the game gets really hard but still winnable because you're naga), and there are simply better heroes to pick right now, though Naga is still one of the hardest carries in the game. And I get your 'gotta micro it whole game', after you win a 80 minute long Naga game, you really kinda want to rest for a while or pick something simple like shitstain commander. If you can actually play Naga you can win a losing game by prolonging it to hell and that's kind of really tiring.
Yeah I would buy stout shield/pms/quelling blade aswell but they're just not expensive enough IMO to be worth mentioning.
Lately I've been playing ember and the game is just basically farm till you have a divine rapier and then you push and hopefully win the game so the games are always 50+ minutes (when I play him), same goes for naga probably.
"Yeah I would buy stout shield/pms/quelling blade aswell but they're just not expensive enough IMO to be worth mentioning."
I only mentioned them because I said my slots are all used when I get radi, where some people with brain damage still have 2-3 slots after they get their radiance because they do not understand that some items speed up their farm and keep them from dying.
"Lately I've been playing ember and the game is just basically farm till you have a divine rapier and then you push and hopefully win the game so the games are always 50+ minutes (when I play him), same goes for naga probably."
The difference is that you've only started playing the naga once you get your radi, with ember, considering you're outleveling the opponents by being in a solo lane you can offset your squishyness (esp if you have drums as well) and use tri remnant nuke early and use guard to burn people, you actually have nice (even solo) kill potential, naga is just not that good at solo winning/killing people in the early game so you have to play around that, obviously this all changes depending on your position and playstyle, some people actually go diffu first, play her mid, and TP to fights and turn them around and build early game items otherwise in order to fight and take towers after winning fights, and I am not really fond of this gameplay because if you want to do that you should pick shadowfiend or TA or something similar, naga's radi rush is simply THE way to play the pos 1/2 naga I think. Also if you want to make naga a better fighter early game you will max net instead of mirror image which will actually slow your farm and make your radiance less effective, with ember you'll never max sleight along with chains because you simply do not do enough damage to warrant it, with naga, 4 levels of illusions pay off immediately as you get your radi, and they can help you get it a lot faster too if you can micro the illusions to farm the jungle, so a carry/mid naga typically gets one level of net in the first four levels.
I only mentioned them because I said my slots are all used when I get radi, where some people with brain damage still have 2-3 slots after they get their radiance because they do not understand that some items speed up their farm and keep them from dying.
Yeah that's why I said IMO but yeah if I would get radiance I would have all slots filled with items aswell.
Ember is great for solo kills, if you actually get an orb of venom and then you even have drums or phase or BoT you can just chase them down and they can't do anything.
^Yeah, wanted to mention OoV as well, but I already wrote a blanket so I didn't want to expand that much.
I don't play ember at all but I know when I see people who know what they're doing (where I play it's usually boosters or people who only play ember though), most decent players seem to also take an early level of sleigh (well, early compared to the usual 'forget it until level 10') to have a chance at killing somebody out of their melee/guard range occasionally, and it has synergy with OoT because you can apply the slow from range and then run people down and hit them as the debuff is about to expire and only use remnants if you have to apply more damage/to escape.
Naked BoTs are another pet peeve of mine, I may not play Ember, but the worst thing is when people don't even know how to play around the fact that their whole inventory consists of movement speed and teleport (aka they don't split push nearly as much as they should, don't know why people rush bots, and feed because they are squishy as fuck and suck anyway), though I've played with people who get OoV > boots > drums > BoTs and just splitpush/run people down like crazy, I really like that kind of gameplay because I hate seeing people farming their battlefuries/daedali and being useless for half the game because they do not realize they can contribute to ganks/fights etc.
jesus people like that flat chested, gross complexion/gross all around sasha grey? I might actually take johnny sins over that tbh.
and no, catholics aren't enamored by ben carson, the pope is pretty liberal actually. Thank god relentless isn't catholic, so tired of us getting lumped in with all the crazies fundamentalist christians. Those statements might be separate, I do not have any knowledge of relentless' religion or lack thereof. But catholics get lumped with the crazies all the time and vast majority aren't close to that at all.
If it makes you feel any better, I think the current pope is an anti-christ. That's how far away from being Catholic I am. But secular people often are not even aware that there are such things as non-catholic Christians.
"But secular people often are not even aware that there are such things as non-catholic Christians."
Often? There's probably a minority of secular people who do not understand that there are non-catholic Christians, it's just that they are in the greatest numbers, hence why a lot of time is dedicated to them when things are discussed, and less time is dedicated to some specific low-number sects that you might belong to.
Per favore Accedi per inviare commenti.
Everyone wonders not only what items to get, but when should I get them?
Is it possible to provide average item purchase times for dotabuff plus users?
When does a 5k MMR alchemist typically finish radiance? Which wins more, Vlads first or Bfury first on antimage?
Does getting Hand of Midas on AA really speed up the time to Aghs in practice? Or does it just sound like it might theoretically?