General Discussionhow do you win vs invoker mid as arc warden solo mid?

Hmmm. Possibly wait for his spirits to die then go ham

i dont think there is a way to win early game against q-e voker with arc. I usually wait for my midas to arrive and use it on both of his forge spirits then kill him. But thats not something you can rely on everytime

@Jacked forge spirits has lesser cooldown than its duration and an experienced invoker will never let them die before its off cooldown
so thats not a solution

Paging dr. Cookie

Well doto is never a 1v1. Call a support? I feel even a prophet mid or LD mid is good right.

Against warden

just keep a forge spirit up whenever he goes on you and you wont be slowed by his flux ez escape ezezezezezezezezezezezezezeezeez

^uhhh, im playing arc warden side?

And im practicing arc warden on a smurf but going against a voker mid is just not fun. And you know how low mmr plays out so im trying to take into account the lack of roaming supports on my team when practicing.

That double Midas for forge spirits is kinda genius man.

^thats assuming you even get a fast enough midas when he denies his whole creep wave right in front of yoyr face

It's true tho u gotta be so good at lhing with the hero to get lh in qe invo lane and it's not just about aw

Aggro pull creep might help doggy

With any other mid hero they have decent tools vs a q e voker

Tinker: laser before he last hits and you only have forged spirit to worry about when csing

Alch: acid spam is deceptively strong that most players who are foolish enough to tank the burn damage forget they also have -6 armor and can be punched out of lane

Storm: remnant

Sniper: near instant attack animation and projectile speed, shrapnel and superior range

Arc warden? Flux is countered by forge spirits, low base damage, slow flying projectile, an unreliable nuke, an easier to counter miss field, sub-300 base movespeed

It is a mismatch, get your levels and win the game off of ganking other lanes. If the invo knows what he is doing then you cannot do much unless he is quas wex.

you don't

you just farm, arc can't beat invoker nor jugger 1v1

^have you ever got absolutely wrecked by an invoker or jugger while on your smurfing adventures?

dont go mid

Yep even by 3k juggers

Even if they won the lane, i won the game
MUAHAHAHAH

force him (with flux) to waste the spirit, then kill the spirit fast as u can... then smoke, walk behind him (circling top rune) and try to kill him with a u got (tempest double, flux, the little ghost), mostly will kick him out of the lane for a while..

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2781482156 WEW arc shit hero that takes 40 minutes to come online WEW
1 omnislash and im die
1 rp and im die
1 hex and im die
1 silence and im die

WEW LAME HERO CANT EVEN 5v5 after 20mins of farm, shiat hero confirmed

but i do blame my team tho every loss is my team's fault

Cookie will kill me for this i know but get a point in yo supa awesome magnetic shield shiz and then whenever you have ur clone up use it. If it's a low skill.game like i play in i dont see the need to go to base cause you'll have a salve and a mango every 30seconds whenever ur ulti is up. Just play safe basically lul

I can't kill shit with just a mjolnir vs their lineup, that is a problem, I needed orchid shadow blade instead of that Thor cosplay Garbo farming item.

Ye its fine, even i level magnetic in bad lanes

Imo u dont have to kill them

Also youre right with the sb orchid thing, btw dagger is dead crap

You shouldnt have finished mjol, shouldve gone mael, diff and sb

Also shouldve kept brown boots instead of bots, as you wont splitpush that game till the very lategame

Yo cookie i raped that aw my last meepo game so hard 😂

^because every micro heroes counter this terrible hero

... simple, double wave him at lvl 1 and kill him at lvl 2, in other words your gonna hit lvl 2 before him because of the double wave, and the double wave is gonna give you the perfect opportunity to kill the shit out of him with flux and spark under tower because he has 6 creeps coming at him under tower, the flux slow will cause him to take creep dmg and allow you land spark wraiths.

The point of this match up is that it is actually very even, meaning if you stand there at lvl 1 an do nothing then invoker naturally dominates, the process of winning begins in the first wave, where you have to establish dominance by double waving and harrassing is shit, once you've done that, every wave you kill the ranged with 2 right clicks and spark wraith, to push the wave, invoker will constantly take dmg from pushed waves, or be forced into a zone where you can land spark wraiths. it also makes killing forge spirits easy.

If you just stand there and try to last hits your gonna lose, invokers spells and skill set is designed to harass in an even footing, Arc Wardens spell set is designed to be a snare, a trap that takes advantage of someone out of position or to turn lane dominance into kills,

therefore Arc warden cannot beat invoker if you let invoker dominate the creep equilibrium, invoker cannot beat arc warden if arc warden dominates the creep equilibrium. even if the creeps are even invoker wins cause he's is designed as a magic fighter, arc is not a magic fighter, he is a specialty skill set designed to ensnare opponents into damage.

once you kill at him at lvl 1 or 2, you basically setup yourself like a techies, you control the lane, and keep invoker zoned and constantly defending himself against a wave, if he tps into lane, place 2-3 spark wraiths, anytime he tps to lane you should be forcing him to cancel it or die.

How thefuck do you propose spmeone plays that out

the timing you proposed is literally impossible

Go 1v1 i wanna see it

spark wraith doesnt do enough damage to oneshot anyone does it? lol

because he can tp anywhere near tower and he sees where the wraiths are, so unless you start placing AFTER he tps you would not hit him... and they arent permanent, and theyre in line of where enemy creeps walk

arc has no aoe to push the lane unless ur spamming bubble? i dont see how ur getting this mythical situation where all his creeps are dead and none of urs are

dreng you scrub, accept the request

i wanna see your insane plan to win lane against invoker, because i have no idea how that situation can be possibly made true at lvl 1-2

in my head it looks literally impossible, but what do i know, maybe you know how it works but suck at explaining. so just go 1v1

edit: tried it with dreng, it's impossible

invoker has advantage over arc, at best you'll break even, you can't kill him solo

This is why mids love good supports.

Id love to see u manage that drengr. U're saying its simple so post a match id you doing that

Edit: so he failed ok.

Guys easy way to win mid against any hero. Just kill the hero lvl 1-2 😂

Dog still waiting to play with ur arc warden mid

Disclaimer: NS opinion, so bear with me
Before lvl 8 invoker only has 1 forge spirit, so what i do as arc warden is to put 1 lvl of magnetic field early on
You should be able to kill the forge quick enough without getting any damage then proceed to kill invoker. Thats what i did in my last game
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2784250918

go forges sunstrike wall or cold snap i prefer wall cause cold snap can be countered by black field

anyone who isn't retarded will just walk up to you with forge + coldsnap and you're fucked, no way you're killing invoker nor winning htat lane

at best you can do tricks to break even, but no way you're winning it without ganks from supports

unless that invoker is literally retarded

the real question is how to win against a jugg
invoker is a tough one but getting an early field point and just right clicking him can be enough especially since you should be getting aquila before midas

midas eat the forge spirits when he spawns them in and its an easy kill
otherwise call in the supports and use spark to last hit

jugger is literally impossible to win against, you have some chance against voker, but none against jugger