if you play decent early you can lane Kunkka against him and at lvl 6-7 he cant really stay in lane against you
when it comes to trading hits and head to head combat... probably only a very few, like razor with early 2 points in W
what you can do is outrange him and use creepaggro. heroes like mirana, silencer and sniper tend to do pretty well
also, heroes who nuke the creepwaves alot should be fine. storm, lina, zeus. just dont run in attack range when you dont have to and go jungle after you pushed the lane under his tower
pugna can do fine
agree, he outranges viper AND nukes hard, plus his movement speed is stupidly high without boots
Invoker is good against viper? Really? I've never felt it myself. :/ I'd say Lina is the answer you're looking for.
the thing with pugna is that he does not necessarily win the lane against viper, but it is hard to lose it really hard if you are not an idiot
also there is no way in hell you are killing viper in that lane if he maxes corrosive skin, but he should not kill you either
mostly you will be trading farm
Broodmother, just shove wave and web side camps to get ahead in farm, you have web regen and he cant nuke your spiders
Obvious answers: tinker because of his abilities, lina because of her attack range and abilities.
why wud u pick tink against viper
sure u win lane
but u literally can never blink cuz ull have corrosive on u the entire game
invoker is shit
dk is ok, but he will just end up trading farm
u want someone who outranges him, is faster than him, or both
as people have already said, shit like pugna (trades farm), silencer (harasses a lot), maybe even dp (has kill potential and can shove the wave), also batrider completely wipes vipers ass (i think)
but u literally can never blink cuz ull have corrosive on u the entire game
Rearm + blink, one second is a plenty of leeway for you to do this consistently, it is way more important that viper has no silence or a hard disable to cancel your rearm/tp. On the other hand, a hero like puck can't keep your blink on cooldown indefinitely, either, but he can scout you with the orb, silence you and fuck your tp.
The bigger problem you have with viper is that he's tanky as fuck with his almost 45% magic resist and tanky builds so it's hard to kill him off in general, but you are at no risk of dying to him without the help of his teammates basically at any point in the game (unless he goes orchid/bthorn or mkb and you don't get any defensive options which is just a misplay on your part, playing tinker who farms both faster and safer than viper does).
I really have not seen high mmr/pro players struggle that much against corrosive skin as far as blink is concerned. It is not ion shell which ticks so fast it's almost impossible to rearm + blink if you have any ping above 5, and if you don't use shift queue, it's a dot that ticks reasonably slowly. But I have seen them not having the burst to kill off viper because a good chunk of their damage output are basically magic damage and viper is pretty good against it so they don't have mana to kill viper easily early, and later on viper builds hood/bkb/invis and they can never actually kill him until hex or in chaotic teamfights (where you do have the problem of having to rearm blink because you'll be close enough to viper for skin to proc, and if you don't have the mana to kill him in first place, having to rearm just for blink makes your life sad). I did see a 7k tinker spammer play around this by always using all his shit before he rearms to blink, since rearm costs so much mana.
I mean, yeah, it sucks having to rearm just to blink because early you don't have mana to expend for it, but it's more of a "it sucks" thing than it is a game breaking thing. I mean, if you are a 1400 distance from viper, skin will just not proc in the first place, but initiating on him is still a pain and big teamfights where you already don't have enough mana to kill anyone become much harder because of this, which is what I think jdf was referring to - in that case, yes, viper fucks your blink over based on the fact that there's just not enough mana to spam rearm + blink right away (plus, this forces you to use your blink right after rearm 100% of the time when viper is in the vicinity which is bad for you).
Playing against a bunch of stuns/silences/visibility/mobility of the enemy team is 100000x worse than anything viper does to tinker, is my point. Viper fucks you over in messy teamfights, forcing you to use your shit less effectively, stuns/silences/mobility fuck you over at every stage and situation of the game, and unlike the corrosive dot that you know ticks every 1 second and forces you to use the blink right after rearm every time, those can fuck you up by making you unable to rearm, stopping your TP when you already expended the mana so you can't rearm it, any sort of burst during any sort of stun when caught will kill you, etc.
I have seen storm and zeus fucking tinker really bad both in high mmr pubs and pro play, and viper is just incomparably ineffective at really putting a pressure on a tinker in any meaningful way that a good tinker player can't play around.
Well what does zeus do if you stand between him and creeps? He cant even sap dmg, he cant use spells, as it cancels clarities on level 2. He needs constant gangs.
Wind is working decent. Big nuke, can trade well as she has wind run. Can take tower, can win lane.
dude zeus can stand under tower range and zap the creeps
honestly it feels worse to be against silencer
im literally under my tower and he is hitting me
ffs
Zeus vs viper is probably one of the more skillful matchups for zeus since you can actually "kite" viper in a way. As long as you make sure you're more than 1400 units away when the lightning hits, you're good. The problem is that the experience range is 1300, so you have to be careful, a smart viper will stand close to creeps so that you have to take the punishment for throwing lightning. Another problem is that viper can harass you under your tower without taking tower aggro if he pushes the creeps out, you play against this by not allowing him to push creeps into your tower by spamming lightning. Also as you both gain levels, he maxes skin and takes only 56% damage from you which is a huge decrease for a hero that already struggles to kill viper because he will fuck your mobility if you try to just go on him.
Basically, zeus can definitelly farm against viper, but he can't really threaten him in much of a meaningful way, meaning viper will basically have freefarm, and if you decide to go on a viper as a zeus you are actually pretty likely to be turned on and just die because viper's slows and magic resist shit on zeus.
Oh and one more thing - zeus is notorious for being able to last hit pretty easily with arc lightning, so few heroes can deny him last hits. Viper is one of those few heroes, since nether toxin works on allied units, too, making it possible for viper to easily deny the ranged creep if you spam lightning (which you have to do) especially since you can't combine right click + lightning to get the last hit on the ranged creep since you have to stand the fuck back.
Not only are you in no obligation to read any of them, I also see your genitals are still intact and not in your anal orifice. Come on, man, I need to get something out of listening to you, let's trade. I stop writing essays, you mutilate your body, about an even trade, don't you think?
Dunno, I experienced only 2 games with Viper vs Zeus, which I remember and... He pushed the wave to my HG with Q and spends a lot of mana for it. After it, he needs clarity. I stood between him and the wave - he couldnt lasthit (only way was to get close to me enough for me to hit him). And I stood in range to not transition his Q to creeps, so he could only waste his mana on me.
If viper buys enough regen (duo tangos + branches), he can comfortably just LH 8-10 creeps in 1 wave and keep zeus so far away, he is non existent. Result? I was lvl 6, when he was 3-4, as he couldnt even sap XP and died once when he tried to get closer to get something from lane.
Probably it is due to my sheet tier 3.5k and 6k Zeus would punish such an attitude (or probably more of his team), which would make Viper play more carefull, but still - even just breaking 1-2 clarities with E and managing to keep hero out of XP range for 2-3 waves makes Viper insane (as he gets all LH) and other hero really behind. Viper just shits on anybody, who cant manfight him a bit or at least threathen him, disrupt his farm.
magic resist doesnothing to laser
viper with bladrmail makes it impossible to cast spells safely, u have to rearm iin vision and probably die
Sky mid maybe. I tried it and won the lane. He can max corrosive skin but you still have the silence lvl 1 who neglets the magic resistance. Just start with stats cuz he will cancel all the clarities. Get botle, take runes, use shrines.
razor, clinkz, tinker, brewmaster, brood, pugna, meepo, windranger, pa/pl are also pretty ok
eh pa isn't great. Viper has a surprising amount of magic damage and the early levels of blur aren't enough protection from his rightclicks.
as a viper player the heroes I hate going up against most are things like tinker, silencer, clinkz, and dp.
Most heroes can just trade farm and hang back so they don't die. Alch can surely farm lane and go into jungle, come push lane with acid, rotate to jungle. Dk won't die to viper after a couple levels but he obviously cannot kill viper either.
Viper is trash. Even u lose a lot in mid, u can comeback later with very easy..because viper are just tanky creep with no disable and mobility
Viper is trash. Even u lose a lot in mid, u can comeback later with very easy..because viper are just tanky creep with no disable and mobility
Sf is trash. Even u lose a lot in mid, u can comeback later with very easy..because sf are just squishy creep with no disable and mobility
viper alone is pretty much like almost any other mid hero, almost always you can just (maybe a bit unfavorably) trade farm, if you're not a squishy melee...
real scary is when you're solo against viper+lich+1 
dude zeus can stand under tower range and zap the creeps
viper can stand near creeps and fuck with your clarities??? Not to mention that you can only push the wave and he can actually deny creeps to keep the wave away from you.
why wud u pick tink against viper
sure u win lane
but u literally can never blink cuz ull have corrosive on u the entire game
viper can fuck with your blink, but it's not like he can follow up like a storm or puck could. Unless you have shit positioning to start with, you can just safely drop your payload from the edge of teamfights or pickoffs and dont have to mind getting blink cancelled.
When the enemy picks viper i usually pusy out and pick qop get lvls gank lanes and get then split push the fack out of that immobile brick.
Tinker can survive the lane (max march)
Invoker will not survive the lane lol
Huskar can probably beat Viper, but you'll need early boots to not get out-orb-walked.
Viper can stay relevant in games just fine, you're just building him wrong. Build dmg, especially attack speed, not tank items. People run around with skadi and heart on viper and then wonder why they have no impact as enemy team ignores them, kills the rest the 5v1s viper. It's similar to medusa, build dmg first.
Viper with aquila, treads, lance, mjollnir at ~22 mins is a monster who will stay relevant all game.
@KEK
viper has bonus magic resist, also harasses without drawing creep agro, and is way tankier than sky
sky has 0 armor, and his q only deals 100ish dmg every 3-4 seconds in the early game
just go in demo mode and test out a viper auto attacking a sky who just bolts him
the only advantage sky has is his ms, but since viper maxes corrosive in this matchup he will be slowed always anyway
brood, easy as fuck
sf, extremly hard, if you do not main sf, don't even hope for it
razor, fine, but issue is you have a razor pp
timber, fine, but if you are too greedy you'll chain die
jakiro, piece of cake
tinker, fine
pugna, fine
ta ? i know some people used to win this one some years ago
bat ? does it still win ? -i doubt highly on this one, all i know is if it's on side lane, viper wreks bat-
dp ? never saw that matchup
i dont know how tf do u play ta against viper
any advices in this matchup? i remember u saying that viper > ta until you're on highest lvl of play, where it turns around but i have no idea how to play against that guy
although it's probably possible because sometimes enemy ta has far more from laning against me as viper than she should have
Per favore Accedi per inviare commenti.
Is there any hero you can play vs viper mid and actually win the lane without ganks? Ik razor and invo and good, are there any others???