Their item choices aren't questionable. If anything a Heart on spectre after a radiance is questionable, Incredibly greedy, and makes spectre barely a threat DPS wise until she gets a third item, hopefully by around 30 minutes... at which point a good team will have already crushed Specters team in the current meta. Rushing a radiance and then going into a heart is a terrible idea.
and diffusal is only not core if you plan on not team fighting.
vanguard is more tanky than drums, and lets a spectre rush the radiance and then go into dps mata/diffusal, which is required in this meta, while at the same time always coming to team fights. That is the reason they are picking it up, and it is not even remotely questionable in the time these carries are getting them.
It doesn't delay your core in the sense that you would buy the items regardless because you need them. That they turn into a Vanguard doesn't delay your core. Vangaurd isn't useless because you actually need the stats it provides. The only argument you are making is that the items used to build Vanguard can be used for other items if you don't assemble it. Why not both? Vanguard, Radiance, Manta Style, Heart.
And Heart is not core at all. Manta is way better in my opinion because it allows you to farm faster and hit harder.
@artiq
it does delay your core because you would only need to buy these items because they would become items you actually need, but instead they become unusable because vanguard cant be disassembled. also i never said manta isnt core, i just mentioned 2 core items
You don't make any sense. Vanguard is a good item in many games 'cause you need the stat it provides. You buy the Vanguard because you need those stats. There is no better alternative to Vanguard right now and you haven't provided one.
How is Refresher or Linken's or Heart core? They are luxury items. Most of the times you've already won before you get those items.
I dont play spectre, but when I do, i miss all last hits and get 6 iron branches.
I think out of all the items that makes the forums here blow up are:
1. HAND OF MIDAS
2. VANGUARD
IDK why vanguard with 80% chance to block 40 dmg on spectre and has + health and + health regen is such a shitty idea. Makes no sense to call it a poop item guys lol.
you still seem upset, and i still like it. Need milk and cookie with ur 3k trashrating? :3
@caveman:
the most tards here are mad at their teammates when they can't farm. They never think about maybe getting something which helps them stay in lane, its so much easier to flame ur mates how shitty they are instead of playing decent.
^
btw whats up with ur say avatar? I mean you suck balls and are nothing but a little kid sitting in his chair while ur mom is yelling in ur ear to get the fuck away from your PC and get a life, yet you have a gay lion with some gaysauce flags.
Are you getting bullied for being the king of the gays?
Whatever you say Blunt, you have to remember that there are people out there who fap to your voice. Yes, you thought you had fucking forgotten about that didn't you?
Anyway man everyone knows you are the top retard here i dont even know why i am wasting my time with you, keep shit talking i dont give a fuck anymore.
Yeah i liked bleach when they were trying to break that chick out of the castle or whatever. After that it was kinda stretching out the story too much and isen is still around 400 episodes later.
? drums benefits you, your team, and your illusions, and its effects are extremely expensive if you want to copy them from other items. if you want more ms, as, hp, dmg, and mana, you would need to build a lot of other items. if you want to copy the effects of vanguard, it costs almost the same as building a vanguard, except you can actually use the items for not stupid shit (eg. not vanguard)
Yay for 3 damage that my illusions get from drums rather than extra pure damage I could have from desolate cause I could farm the jungle and get xp more efficiently with vanguard
lol you noobs can say vanguard is bad, and I'll keep winning every single spectre game I play that isn't a 20 minute loss (where the other team pushes hard and we aren't able to defend it).
Past 25 minutes the drum is just 171 hp and aoe 5% ms essentially, and really the ms can be disregarded because somebody else will buy drum anyway (especially if you ask). Having 2 drums in a team is something I run into all the time tbh.
Spectre isn't a hero that needs half the shit drums gives you. Int? Wasted. 9 agi? You won't even notice 8 minutes after you buy drums.
It's nice to say that drums fills all of spec's gaps perfectly 10/10 buy every game, but the only noticeable difference between vanguard yasha and drums yasha is that with the drum build you die faster.
if the game is going that far you should be happy with yourself because past 25 mins if you dont have radiance+manta with an on time drums, you suck or your team sucks.
I just don't get why you claim Drums is much better on Spectre than Vanguard. I only see a very marginal benefit in favor of Drums that mostly comes from it's cheaper price and that it slightly benefits your team. For me it just seems to be taking efficiency to a very stupid and kind of obsesive point, kind of how pokemon enthusiasts actually search for the damned codes in the game which decide what attributes (or whatever) will give their breeding results 5 or so more points than what they normally find in the pokewild.
Wink for what i see here i just disagree with you saying that drums is better than vanguard on spectre.
They cost almost the same ( you are going to buy the stout anyway )
I am not going to analyze both items because i already did that, but you are really blocked in accepting vanguard when even pro players are buying this item now, and not only xboct.
It's especially good when you're against heavy physical single target dmg such as Drow Ranger, but blademail isn't the most efficient item you'd probably get.
I cry whenever I see Wink talking about getting "tankier" illusions. XD
tanky illusions rape everything in their path. I just watched a tournament game where naga buys a heart and immediately sends 3 illusions into enemy base, and kills both supports with them.
Also, you're talking about tanky illusions and I'm assuming you talk about haunt. Haunt illusions doesn't get targeted in the middle of a fiight, how deca are you?
^i wouldnt say diffusal is core, there are better items for spectre even though diffusal is still amazing on her, but vanguard is not on that list
Their item choices aren't questionable. If anything a Heart on spectre after a radiance is questionable, Incredibly greedy, and makes spectre barely a threat DPS wise until she gets a third item, hopefully by around 30 minutes... at which point a good team will have already crushed Specters team in the current meta. Rushing a radiance and then going into a heart is a terrible idea.
and diffusal is only not core if you plan on not team fighting.
vanguard is more tanky than drums, and lets a spectre rush the radiance and then go into dps mata/diffusal, which is required in this meta, while at the same time always coming to team fights. That is the reason they are picking it up, and it is not even remotely questionable in the time these carries are getting them.
@Wink
It doesn't delay your core in the sense that you would buy the items regardless because you need them. That they turn into a Vanguard doesn't delay your core. Vangaurd isn't useless because you actually need the stats it provides. The only argument you are making is that the items used to build Vanguard can be used for other items if you don't assemble it. Why not both? Vanguard, Radiance, Manta Style, Heart.
And Heart is not core at all. Manta is way better in my opinion because it allows you to farm faster and hit harder.
"rush the radiane"
>spends half of a radiance worth of gold on hp and regen
@artiq
it does delay your core because you would only need to buy these items because they would become items you actually need, but instead they become unusable because vanguard cant be disassembled. also i never said manta isnt core, i just mentioned 2 core items
You don't make any sense. Vanguard is a good item in many games 'cause you need the stat it provides. You buy the Vanguard because you need those stats. There is no better alternative to Vanguard right now and you haven't provided one.
How is Refresher or Linken's or Heart core? They are luxury items. Most of the times you've already won before you get those items.
http://www.twitch.tv/dotastarladder_en
havost
^
fuck that, rather listen to 3k trashbracket players like wink and dorky
You know i am defending vanguard right you fucker ?
^
you seem upset, i like it
mimimimimimimi
btw fairy tail is awful
AWFUL
I dont play spectre, but when I do, i miss all last hits and get 6 iron branches.
I think out of all the items that makes the forums here blow up are:
1. HAND OF MIDAS
2. VANGUARD
IDK why vanguard with 80% chance to block 40 dmg on spectre and has + health and + health regen is such a shitty idea. Makes no sense to call it a poop item guys lol.
@Dorkly:
But grimmjow is a bleach charaker.....
you still seem upset, and i still like it. Need milk and cookie with ur 3k trashrating? :3
@caveman:
the most tards here are mad at their teammates when they can't farm. They never think about maybe getting something which helps them stay in lane, its so much easier to flame ur mates how shitty they are instead of playing decent.
didnt you had a laxus avatar ? anyway bleach is awful too
^
btw whats up with ur say avatar? I mean you suck balls and are nothing but a little kid sitting in his chair while ur mom is yelling in ur ear to get the fuck away from your PC and get a life, yet you have a gay lion with some gaysauce flags.
Are you getting bullied for being the king of the gays?
bleach went bad after the first arch ended
Whatever you say Blunt, you have to remember that there are people out there who fap to your voice. Yes, you thought you had fucking forgotten about that didn't you?
^^
i would't say bad, i would say worse, but the thousand blood war is fucking awesome *.*
@zano:
i'll go cry now ;_;
Can we just compromise and get PMS?
Anyway man everyone knows you are the top retard here i dont even know why i am wasting my time with you, keep shit talking i dont give a fuck anymore.
^
Well you clearly do, otherwise you would't respond the whole time, duh tard.
Yeah i liked bleach when they were trying to break that chick out of the castle or whatever. After that it was kinda stretching out the story too much and isen is still around 400 episodes later.
Na'vi playing carry spectre...lose vs Power ranger on 78 min game.
Drums is just bad because it's a dead end item. If you could dissassemble drums to make heart, it'd be fantastic.
As it is, drums just doesn't offer as much as vanguard does and 50 minutes in that drums is a waste of a slot.
midoinitrite
^Wink, did you change your name and opinion???
? drums benefits you, your team, and your illusions, and its effects are extremely expensive if you want to copy them from other items. if you want more ms, as, hp, dmg, and mana, you would need to build a lot of other items. if you want to copy the effects of vanguard, it costs almost the same as building a vanguard, except you can actually use the items for not stupid shit (eg. not vanguard)
I wish tranquil boots were back like they used to be....:(
Yay for 3 damage that my illusions get from drums rather than extra pure damage I could have from desolate cause I could farm the jungle and get xp more efficiently with vanguard
Wink do you build phase or treads? If you say phase I will be inclined to assume everything else you have said about illusion stats is irrelevant
lol you noobs can say vanguard is bad, and I'll keep winning every single spectre game I play that isn't a 20 minute loss (where the other team pushes hard and we aren't able to defend it).
phase if i plan to fight early, because i will have drums to cover for stats. treads if i want to farm and have tanky illusions with radiance
Past 25 minutes the drum is just 171 hp and aoe 5% ms essentially, and really the ms can be disregarded because somebody else will buy drum anyway (especially if you ask). Having 2 drums in a team is something I run into all the time tbh.
Spectre isn't a hero that needs half the shit drums gives you. Int? Wasted. 9 agi? You won't even notice 8 minutes after you buy drums.
It's nice to say that drums fills all of spec's gaps perfectly 10/10 buy every game, but the only noticeable difference between vanguard yasha and drums yasha is that with the drum build you die faster.
and they're both dead end items
if the game is going that far you should be happy with yourself because past 25 mins if you dont have radiance+manta with an on time drums, you suck or your team sucks.
You'd have rad + manta with vanguard anyway, the point is that both drums and vanguard fall off.
You can't just say not to buy vanguard because it's a dead end item and then say drums is the best thing ever, that's silly
I just don't get why you claim Drums is much better on Spectre than Vanguard. I only see a very marginal benefit in favor of Drums that mostly comes from it's cheaper price and that it slightly benefits your team. For me it just seems to be taking efficiency to a very stupid and kind of obsesive point, kind of how pokemon enthusiasts actually search for the damned codes in the game which decide what attributes (or whatever) will give their breeding results 5 or so more points than what they normally find in the pokewild.
^ those extra EV/IV points will make a team wreck the others without losing a single pokemon lol
^he speaks the truth
it makes a difference, and why get something thats worse?
well lets see
someone do tests with and without vanguard on spec
just to see how much tankier she can really get, and how much she can take/dish out.
Wink for what i see here i just disagree with you saying that drums is better than vanguard on spectre.
They cost almost the same ( you are going to buy the stout anyway )
I am not going to analyze both items because i already did that, but you are really blocked in accepting vanguard when even pro players are buying this item now, and not only xboct.
we solved this problem dorkly
the proper build is
vanguard/heart/AC/mjolnir/BoT/manta
and ofc only stats/dispersion--->desolate/haunt
I beat OP gets vanguard first item on Razor and Viper as well Kappa
perf build:
phase/rad/manta/diff/butterfly/ref. orb
^^Kappa brother
i already did a test and talked about it...
When is blademail good on Spectra?
It's especially good when you're against heavy physical single target dmg such as Drow Ranger, but blademail isn't the most efficient item you'd probably get.
I cry whenever I see Wink talking about getting "tankier" illusions. XD
tanky illusions rape everything in their path. I just watched a tournament game where naga buys a heart and immediately sends 3 illusions into enemy base, and kills both supports with them.
well... tanky illusions are pretty harsh
idk how ability draft works but in dota 1/wc3 there was a game based on that mode, but with 6 skills (4 normal 2 ultis)
the illusion rape (albeit hard to get to late game) is just too intense... desolate, dispersion, PL's passive, mirror image, PL's ulti, CK's ulti
Send me VOD of that game Wink @steam.
Also, you're talking about tanky illusions and I'm assuming you talk about haunt. Haunt illusions doesn't get targeted in the middle of a fiight, how deca are you?
When i get home message me on steam