@ 666 its not that people expect you to have a higher win rate with the hero at 6000 games, its that they expect you to have a higher mmr if you are only going to have a 50% win rate. If you had a 50% win rate with slark and played 6000 games with him but were able to maintain a high 5k or low 6k mmr then people would see you as truly skilled with the hero.
but if you were that skilled and playing at 4.5k then you would win nearly every game with the hero. in this situation your win rate would barely be any higher then it is now after 6000 games, but your mmr would have increased until you were high 5k or low 6k.
If your a 4k player and you don't have a crazy high win rate with a hero then your just not as good as a 5/6/7k player on that same hero, if you were you wouldn't be 4k after so many games.
It's not 4k, it's 4.5k and I have been 5k in the past. Also:
"And just to humour a few of you, if you'd actually check the Slark players ranks, you'd see that I am surrounded by professional players, or at least their division indicates that. I'm pretty sure that those guys don't party with random scrubs, neither do they constantly get Down's Syndrome players in their team when they solo queue (which I pretty much experience 5-6 games out of 10). For that reason I have to constantly experience and improvise on builds, which more often than not leads to failure, even after 6 thousand games."
I am stuck in the current 4.5k hell because I get to play with absolute retards almost half of the games. Lobotomized people state that you should win the game regardless, if you're good. No! It's a team game and if you get to have a single retard in your team which decides to ruin it on purpose or fucks up just because he's incompetent, the game goes down the drain most of the time.
Have a WK go with you on the safelane, and buying a soulring for the sole purpose of last hitting creeps with his stun and letting you die on purpose by not using his stun at all on the enemy heroes. You might think that's an exception- trust me, it's not. Almost half of the games I get to play with such idiots that do stupid things in different ways.
@pleb, anyone who needs a reason to trash talk people he doesn't like or is jealous about cares about those rankings.
@The number 12
"but if you were that skilled and playing at 4.5k then you would win nearly every game with the hero. "
This rule only accounts for low MMRs where a single player can do so much more impact than the other players in his team. After 4k "Juices experiment" doesn't work out anymore, you simply can not be as skilled to even out other players completely. The room to the perfect skill is pretty tiny, and you can only improve on details, which have detail effects. You're limited by the game at this point. There is still space to 7k, but the detailed decision whether it was smarter to last hit that creep or deny that other creep gets completely overshadowed by bigger impact decisions such as people denying the aegis, feeding couriers, picking crap, etc.
Smaug's arguments are just bizarre:
"I'm myself proud that I made it to the ranking, but honestly, in terms of skill there might be others slightly better than me"
then....
"Something like Talent doesnt exist and even if it did, it would be worthless."
Talent doesn't exist but skill does? riiiiight. Talent in fact does exist in dota (and all e-sports)
"I'm sick and tired of having to defend myself from smartasses with fundamental attribution error claiming that they know everything better.
You guys simply have absolutely no clue about the shit you're talking."
Are you planning on threatening the entire forum with contacting a lawyer again?
^ how is telling the creators of this platform that their acting is undoubtedly illegal "threatening"? By spreading insults and slander you are violating my civil rights. No human should ever agree to such criminal acting.
you are so unbelievably melodramatic and deluded. I am not going to even waste my breath telling you why you have zero grounds for legal action against any of the admins, mods or users of this website.
Go ahead and hire that lawyer (if you can find one that doesn't laugh at you and agrees to waste your money). Let us know how that is going for you.
u think games are easier once ur higher mmr because of better teammates? :DDD
6k players usually play with low 5ks or 4800 or something and play against higher 5ks
ur in 4500 so everyone will be 4500
the chance of the other team having retards is slightly greater than ur team having retards (4 on ur team 5 on theirs) if u dont count urself as a retard.
im pretty sure most 6k+ players would win 4500 games with slark because that hero is so easy to snowball and solowin games with vs low players and eventually someone will pick pudge and feed couriers but that will happen for the other team too so u should steadily increase mmr by only picking slark there if u would really be top 10 slark or whatever
i dont think it rly matters but u cant honestly believe ur anywhere near top 100 best slark players when ur not even 5k? :SSS
"you are so unbelievably melodramatic and deluded. I am not going to even waste my breath telling you why you have zero grounds for legal action against any of the admins, mods or users of this website. "
How about you read some of the laws first before laughing? I can't believe people can actually be this stupid that they never ever in their life heard the term "human rights". And you call me deluded? You're just disgustingly sad.
Really, the idiocy in these comments. Yea sure, I'm sure you would have won my last game. OD mid vs quad lane, with an Ogre last hitting your jungle creeps and a Furion afk'ing in enemy base.
Go, try it, 3v5 ez so ez ez.
"dude the more you rise the more bullshit you see..."
Yes, I am seeing a lot of bullshit. But I won't play against any different players if I keep increasing my MMR. I'm already playing against 5ks, 6ks and 7ks, what would change? Nothing.
How about you read some of the laws first before laughing? I can't believe people can actually be this stupid that they never ever in their life heard the term "human rights". And you call me deluded? You're just disgustingly sad.
how bout you post some of these "laws". You are just pulling nonsense out of your ass. The fact that you think your "human rights" are in any way being violated on this forum just shows everyone here that you are a naive child. Talk about first world problems...
I doubt you have ever even hired a lawyer before. Frankly I doubt you are old enough to afford one.
" After 4k "Juices experiment" doesn't work out anymore, you simply can not be as skilled to even out other players completely. The room to the perfect skill is pretty tiny, and you can only improve on details, which have detail effects. You're limited by the game at this point."
juices win rate in that experiment never went below 70% and he went all the way up to 5.4k, so your first point is just incorrect.
ask your self why some players are able to reliably out play their high 4k opponents while you only win half the time. It isn't luck. maybe your right and it is all in small detail, but truly skilled players are able to make those details add up until they are winning more than half of their games, then their mmr increases. yours isn't doing that, because you just aren't that good (granted mid 4k is still pretty good, but its not top 10 OD players in the world good).
^ There are no higher ranked OD players in the world. You say a 5k OD player should not be in the top 10, but who should? You seem to forget that the idea of having a top 10 is to ranking between the players. Someone just has to take the upper places. You can give it to the guy with 75% winrate in 40 games who never played a serious/ranked game in his life, you can give it to the competitive professional player who randomly played the hero in 1 out of 500 games and happened to win with it, because he wins with any hero when playing in his stack. Or you can give it to that guy who devoted 2 years of his life learning every nuance about that hero in his life.
The list as you would like to have it does not exist. Because those "totally awesome OD players" do not exist. You believe Black or Qojqva play a better OD than me and maybe they do. But you actually have no clue. You see them winning a game that they were supposed to win in the first place, then you check out one of my losses in some impossible to win game and from there on you jump on conclusions.
For example, someone else in this thread (Zenoth) already claimed that I wouldn't be able to properly zone enemy mids with OD or keep the timings well - most pro's neither do it. Despite what many people claim, OD never had a great time in competitive. He got banned a lot, he got picked a lot, he lost a lot. When I see a Dendi OD losing his lane because of being out of mana, because he has no clue how to manage his Astrals, when I see a C9 (I believe it was bOne7, not sure though) OD standing completely off position between the enemy T2 and T3 while attacking the T2 just to be caught off and killed by the next initiation. Then I simply can not confirm that your beloved professionals are in fact good OD players. They might be good team players, they might be respected players, successful, versatile and simply the best of the best. But they are simply not good with OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD. Competitives needed around 4 months from early 2013 to realize that ODs Astral Imprisonment could be abused in order to actually drain mana (and not just lend it) (it got fixed after TI3). How long did it take for pro's to notice that Tranquil Boots could be abused to gain lots of bonus mana on laning stage due to them proccing aura in early 2013? Well, it only took me a day.
Pro's need extremely long times to adapt, especially when it concerns heroes they usually don't play. They also don't know about many important aspects of the hero - or at least they don't know for long. Wasn't it just recently that some extremely good Brewmaster player (was it Qojqva?) didn't even know that he could disspell his tornado? Well, maybe he played impressively, but listing someone for #1 on a hero specific ranking who doesn't even know how to play the hero is just ridiculous. And it's pointless.
I suppose we all know how much Map Awareness, Communication, Mechanical Skill, and Picks decide our games already, but they are hero independent. I think our hero skill should be measured by experience and knowledge, so that people can actually learn from these matches. Again, if it was mainly about generic skills, what's the point of an individual hero ladder? It's just a farce.
And if you are thinking I am defending my place on the ladder, well you are both right and wrong.
Of course I am defending my place since it is quite a nice achievement for me (although not worth much apparently), I am already having strong inferiority complexes due to my analytical nature, I just can't afford other people taking away the only bit of pride that I posses.
More importantly however, I am a very greedy person. I want to gain and learn. To achieve my goals in dota, what I am doing (since I started playing OD for the first time) is watching other people play OD, listening to other people talk about OD and collecting their ideas. Being on the top ladder for OD might help hundreds of other OD fans (or delude them as you may claim), but it doesn't actually help me. In game, I write "I'm #3 OD on Dotabuff, so let me mid please". They still don't care.
What helps me is to have really strong non-disappointing ODs on that ranking. Why is Mushi not there? When I watched him play OD, I felt like I was learning something, I felt like he was someone who actually understands how to play that hero. I could perfectly imitate Dendi's or Arteezy's OD, as well as some guys from the current top ranking (MPJ and Niha), but on the other hand I see their mistakes and I see their limits. It's rather disappointing when you try to copy their playstyle and ultimately fail - not because your copy is bad - but because the playstyle just doesn't work well.
So what I want is to have truly good players in the ranking, good OD players, that come with new and innovative solutions to problems, that have amazing winrate against Zeus and Pugna, that know how to farm despite getting ganked 100 times. Like for me the recent experience that you can crush Razor mid by putting 0 levels into Astral Imprisonment and being 4-0-4-0 or 3-0-4-1 by level 8 was a revelation that drastically changed the way I'm playing, I would like to see other creative minds and how they deal with the every day problems of an OD.
ok im not reading that wall of text but why does zeus lane better vs od than razor does mid seems strange maybe some 3k od game knowledge i dont have yet i srsly wanna know :O
also u might be decent od player but ur nowhere near pro players od level, ur amount of games played doesnt matter sorry : (
You think you can play OD like rtz or dendi? Knowing a gimmicky little trick doesn't compensate for mediocre mechanical ability relative to these other players, but let's not pretend that your weaknesses stop there. Your comments are a combination of meaningless ramblings and contradictions.
At this point I just want to refer to the Dotabuff OD page ( http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/outworld-devourer ) listing Zeus as "Worst versus" right after Pugna. So why? The answer to this question rather is "why not"? Zeus is an int hero who doesn't rely on his auto attacks to get last hits. Zeus has a big range so he doesn't need to get Imprisoned anyway (except if he wants to, to gain additional free mana), he can't be hit by Sanity's Eclipse and ultimatively nukes just happen to counter OD pretty badly (notice Sand King being on that list as well), at level 6 he can almost instagib OD with one combo and he simply outharasses OD out of the lane, forcing him to use tons of regen and rarely go for last hits.
"You think you can play OD like rtz or dendi? Knowing a gimmicky little trick doesn't compensate for mediocre mechanical ability relative to these other players"
You think I have mediocre mechanical ability relative to those players? Wow, guess you never saw a single game from me. Nice claims based off of nothing but your brainfarts.
but let's not pretend that your weaknesses stop there. Your comments are a combination of meaningless ramblings and contradictions.
No. Your comments are. Because they don't even contain any arguments despite your typical "omg I know everything better" which I am pretty tired of.
4.5k is like a breeze i once played on my friends acc to 5k from 4.1k, with the countless amount of threads alr explaining that there's no elo hell in dota u still can't believe it . Moreover, the system here is flawed , even the admin acknowledged it at one point and ur trying to talk as if u deserve to be there when u are not . Some of those one hero only pickers I remember there was a treant and sand king who fared so much better than u. Slark is really good against terrible players .
I don't understand why some of u guys here are so proud of ur 3-5k games and yet u are stuck at a specific rating , it's not going to differentiate a guy who played the hero less than u and urself. It just means that he can pick up the hero much faster (most of the time ) than u
@wraithseeker
I know the Sand King and the PL guy (had the SK guy in my friendlist but he was really rude though, still have the PL guy in my friend list as he is a nice guy) and I can confirm that both of them are nothing more special than me. They have roughly the same MMR as me, they are being treated similarly (i.e. flamed by anyone else). The PL guy has a huge awesome winrate, but that one came from playing unranked and in stacks, his success in Solo Ranked is not any better than mine (or maybe it is slightly better than mine at some times).
I really don't want to talk any of these guys down as they are excellent players. But there is a limit to what you can do with a hero. You can win every game if you somehow can win 1v5. But in very high ranked games you can't. It's just impossible. Not with OD at least.
I'm also playing lots of Phoenix and he seems to be a lot easier/more versatile in every aspect.
why dont u try tranq boots as od vs zeus im no od palyer tho
Tranquil Boots break when you auto attack, and your main purpose as OD is to auto attack, which means you won't get any of its regeneration. You can get Bottle and a Stick, it's fine, it's just not insanely good. You will just be low HP more often, which usually means you will get ganked more often. The real problems start later anyway, when Zeus just nukes you down in clashes. Then you really would like to have a BKB or an Orchid or a Heart or something that can deal with all those nukes.
lol this system is a joke. i could care less about your walls of text, but neither the slark nor the OD are real top 10 players at that hero. broken system is broken.
Tl :dr The only point that I could pick out was dendi and rtz's OD suck ass and I'm so much better than them right @smaug.
What u completely fail to realize is that they are playing against competent opponents while u on the other hand are playing against monkeys and are literally comparing them when it's not a fair comparison.
They play against opponents who are better than their teammates (hence naturally losing lanes most of the time ) and then they have to carry their team in order to win (hence their high mmr).
Contracy to popular beliefs over here at dota buff, 4k is not that good
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
"Well TAKI has 67.25% wr on PL and Pirate has 60.54% on SK while you have 49.9% on OD, I fail to see how you are equal to them."
Taki wins the same amount of games as me, he has the same rating, the only reason for his higher winrate is that he plays unranked/stacks more. It's no difference in terms of skill.
"What u completely fail to realize is that they are playing against competent opponents while u on the other hand are playing against monkeys and are literally comparing them when it's not a fair comparison."
This is incorrect, they play against the exact same pub players that I am playing against. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass please. And no matter how often you are going to repeat it, it remains true that both maxing Arcane Orb as well as rushing Aghanims Scepter (before 6.82) are very bad on OD, but still most pros did it.
"^4k does mean shit. Not all 4k players are crap, but there are more than enough idiots around 4k to make most games meaningless"
I'm playing against 5k and 6k and sometimes 7k players just as well.
Autism really, no wonder u play with the op , both delusional players who don't understand crap.
Yeah go ur 4k against the. 6,7k like about 1 out of 30 matches ? And u are trying to use that to support your statement, if that's not autism that's called being mentally challenged.
I don't even pull stuff out of my ass, show me how exactly are they facing the same exact caliber of players that u face . That's called autism , mmr system from valve literally prevents that unless u tell me u can bypass the mmr balancing system in dota2 matchmaking.
Fuck the rules, formulas and statistics used to approximate the overall skill level of players. No one belongs in the top 10, 100 or whatever unless some stuck up individuals agree upon it.
no, you mean fuck that there is a better means of approximation of skill (mmr) when considering heroes, but that value isn't publicly available to stats website which results in convoluted formulas that wrongly distribute rankings
@ 666 its not that people expect you to have a higher win rate with the hero at 6000 games, its that they expect you to have a higher mmr if you are only going to have a 50% win rate. If you had a 50% win rate with slark and played 6000 games with him but were able to maintain a high 5k or low 6k mmr then people would see you as truly skilled with the hero.
but if you were that skilled and playing at 4.5k then you would win nearly every game with the hero. in this situation your win rate would barely be any higher then it is now after 6000 games, but your mmr would have increased until you were high 5k or low 6k.
If your a 4k player and you don't have a crazy high win rate with a hero then your just not as good as a 5/6/7k player on that same hero, if you were you wouldn't be 4k after so many games.
It's not 4k, it's 4.5k and I have been 5k in the past. Also:
"And just to humour a few of you, if you'd actually check the Slark players ranks, you'd see that I am surrounded by professional players, or at least their division indicates that. I'm pretty sure that those guys don't party with random scrubs, neither do they constantly get Down's Syndrome players in their team when they solo queue (which I pretty much experience 5-6 games out of 10). For that reason I have to constantly experience and improvise on builds, which more often than not leads to failure, even after 6 thousand games."
I am stuck in the current 4.5k hell because I get to play with absolute retards almost half of the games. Lobotomized people state that you should win the game regardless, if you're good. No! It's a team game and if you get to have a single retard in your team which decides to ruin it on purpose or fucks up just because he's incompetent, the game goes down the drain most of the time.
Have a WK go with you on the safelane, and buying a soulring for the sole purpose of last hitting creeps with his stun and letting you die on purpose by not using his stun at all on the enemy heroes. You might think that's an exception- trust me, it's not. Almost half of the games I get to play with such idiots that do stupid things in different ways.
the level of delusion is religious here
Ronaldinho carri mi plis :) :) ^
who the fuck cares about those rankings
@pleb, anyone who needs a reason to trash talk people he doesn't like or is jealous about cares about those rankings.
@The number 12
"but if you were that skilled and playing at 4.5k then you would win nearly every game with the hero. "
This rule only accounts for low MMRs where a single player can do so much more impact than the other players in his team. After 4k "Juices experiment" doesn't work out anymore, you simply can not be as skilled to even out other players completely. The room to the perfect skill is pretty tiny, and you can only improve on details, which have detail effects. You're limited by the game at this point. There is still space to 7k, but the detailed decision whether it was smarter to last hit that creep or deny that other creep gets completely overshadowed by bigger impact decisions such as people denying the aegis, feeding couriers, picking crap, etc.
Smaug's arguments are just bizarre:
"I'm myself proud that I made it to the ranking, but honestly, in terms of skill there might be others slightly better than me"
then....
"Something like Talent doesnt exist and even if it did, it would be worthless."
Talent doesn't exist but skill does? riiiiight. Talent in fact does exist in dota (and all e-sports)
"I'm sick and tired of having to defend myself from smartasses with fundamental attribution error claiming that they know everything better.
You guys simply have absolutely no clue about the shit you're talking."
Are you planning on threatening the entire forum with contacting a lawyer again?
^ how is telling the creators of this platform that their acting is undoubtedly illegal "threatening"? By spreading insults and slander you are violating my civil rights. No human should ever agree to such criminal acting.
^ROFL
you are so unbelievably melodramatic and deluded. I am not going to even waste my breath telling you why you have zero grounds for legal action against any of the admins, mods or users of this website.
Go ahead and hire that lawyer (if you can find one that doesn't laugh at you and agrees to waste your money). Let us know how that is going for you.
This is why people don't take you seriously.
LMAO
u think games are easier once ur higher mmr because of better teammates? :DDD
6k players usually play with low 5ks or 4800 or something and play against higher 5ks
ur in 4500 so everyone will be 4500
the chance of the other team having retards is slightly greater than ur team having retards (4 on ur team 5 on theirs) if u dont count urself as a retard.
im pretty sure most 6k+ players would win 4500 games with slark because that hero is so easy to snowball and solowin games with vs low players and eventually someone will pick pudge and feed couriers but that will happen for the other team too so u should steadily increase mmr by only picking slark there if u would really be top 10 slark or whatever
i dont think it rly matters but u cant honestly believe ur anywhere near top 100 best slark players when ur not even 5k? :SSS
"you are so unbelievably melodramatic and deluded. I am not going to even waste my breath telling you why you have zero grounds for legal action against any of the admins, mods or users of this website. "
How about you read some of the laws first before laughing? I can't believe people can actually be this stupid that they never ever in their life heard the term "human rights". And you call me deluded? You're just disgustingly sad.
Really, the idiocy in these comments. Yea sure, I'm sure you would have won my last game. OD mid vs quad lane, with an Ogre last hitting your jungle creeps and a Furion afk'ing in enemy base.
Go, try it, 3v5 ez so ez ez.
dude the more you rise the more bullshit you see...
Conclusion:
"dude the more you rise the more bullshit you see..."
Yes, I am seeing a lot of bullshit. But I won't play against any different players if I keep increasing my MMR. I'm already playing against 5ks, 6ks and 7ks, what would change? Nothing.
the level of trolling is in a whole nother level :D
wtf u mean nothing would change, the players on your team would have lower mmr so ur games would be harder XD
FYI, typhox is not a troll, he is genuinely autistic. Highly recommend checking his posts out on PD, some top quality posts over there
who the fuck is @typhox?
How about you read some of the laws first before laughing? I can't believe people can actually be this stupid that they never ever in their life heard the term "human rights". And you call me deluded? You're just disgustingly sad.
how bout you post some of these "laws". You are just pulling nonsense out of your ass. The fact that you think your "human rights" are in any way being violated on this forum just shows everyone here that you are a naive child. Talk about first world problems...
I doubt you have ever even hired a lawyer before. Frankly I doubt you are old enough to afford one.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
B-but they wrote things that hurt me why is this allowed??? They are violating my rights BibleThump
@smaug
" After 4k "Juices experiment" doesn't work out anymore, you simply can not be as skilled to even out other players completely. The room to the perfect skill is pretty tiny, and you can only improve on details, which have detail effects. You're limited by the game at this point."
juices win rate in that experiment never went below 70% and he went all the way up to 5.4k, so your first point is just incorrect.
ask your self why some players are able to reliably out play their high 4k opponents while you only win half the time. It isn't luck. maybe your right and it is all in small detail, but truly skilled players are able to make those details add up until they are winning more than half of their games, then their mmr increases. yours isn't doing that, because you just aren't that good (granted mid 4k is still pretty good, but its not top 10 OD players in the world good).
^ There are no higher ranked OD players in the world. You say a 5k OD player should not be in the top 10, but who should? You seem to forget that the idea of having a top 10 is to ranking between the players. Someone just has to take the upper places. You can give it to the guy with 75% winrate in 40 games who never played a serious/ranked game in his life, you can give it to the competitive professional player who randomly played the hero in 1 out of 500 games and happened to win with it, because he wins with any hero when playing in his stack. Or you can give it to that guy who devoted 2 years of his life learning every nuance about that hero in his life.
The list as you would like to have it does not exist. Because those "totally awesome OD players" do not exist. You believe Black or Qojqva play a better OD than me and maybe they do. But you actually have no clue. You see them winning a game that they were supposed to win in the first place, then you check out one of my losses in some impossible to win game and from there on you jump on conclusions.
For example, someone else in this thread (Zenoth) already claimed that I wouldn't be able to properly zone enemy mids with OD or keep the timings well - most pro's neither do it. Despite what many people claim, OD never had a great time in competitive. He got banned a lot, he got picked a lot, he lost a lot. When I see a Dendi OD losing his lane because of being out of mana, because he has no clue how to manage his Astrals, when I see a C9 (I believe it was bOne7, not sure though) OD standing completely off position between the enemy T2 and T3 while attacking the T2 just to be caught off and killed by the next initiation. Then I simply can not confirm that your beloved professionals are in fact good OD players. They might be good team players, they might be respected players, successful, versatile and simply the best of the best. But they are simply not good with OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD. Competitives needed around 4 months from early 2013 to realize that ODs Astral Imprisonment could be abused in order to actually drain mana (and not just lend it) (it got fixed after TI3). How long did it take for pro's to notice that Tranquil Boots could be abused to gain lots of bonus mana on laning stage due to them proccing aura in early 2013? Well, it only took me a day.
Pro's need extremely long times to adapt, especially when it concerns heroes they usually don't play. They also don't know about many important aspects of the hero - or at least they don't know for long. Wasn't it just recently that some extremely good Brewmaster player (was it Qojqva?) didn't even know that he could disspell his tornado? Well, maybe he played impressively, but listing someone for #1 on a hero specific ranking who doesn't even know how to play the hero is just ridiculous. And it's pointless.
I suppose we all know how much Map Awareness, Communication, Mechanical Skill, and Picks decide our games already, but they are hero independent. I think our hero skill should be measured by experience and knowledge, so that people can actually learn from these matches. Again, if it was mainly about generic skills, what's the point of an individual hero ladder? It's just a farce.
And if you are thinking I am defending my place on the ladder, well you are both right and wrong.
Of course I am defending my place since it is quite a nice achievement for me (although not worth much apparently), I am already having strong inferiority complexes due to my analytical nature, I just can't afford other people taking away the only bit of pride that I posses.
More importantly however, I am a very greedy person. I want to gain and learn. To achieve my goals in dota, what I am doing (since I started playing OD for the first time) is watching other people play OD, listening to other people talk about OD and collecting their ideas. Being on the top ladder for OD might help hundreds of other OD fans (or delude them as you may claim), but it doesn't actually help me. In game, I write "I'm #3 OD on Dotabuff, so let me mid please". They still don't care.
What helps me is to have really strong non-disappointing ODs on that ranking. Why is Mushi not there? When I watched him play OD, I felt like I was learning something, I felt like he was someone who actually understands how to play that hero. I could perfectly imitate Dendi's or Arteezy's OD, as well as some guys from the current top ranking (MPJ and Niha), but on the other hand I see their mistakes and I see their limits. It's rather disappointing when you try to copy their playstyle and ultimately fail - not because your copy is bad - but because the playstyle just doesn't work well.
So what I want is to have truly good players in the ranking, good OD players, that come with new and innovative solutions to problems, that have amazing winrate against Zeus and Pugna, that know how to farm despite getting ganked 100 times. Like for me the recent experience that you can crush Razor mid by putting 0 levels into Astral Imprisonment and being 4-0-4-0 or 3-0-4-1 by level 8 was a revelation that drastically changed the way I'm playing, I would like to see other creative minds and how they deal with the every day problems of an OD.
decent copy pasta material
ok im not reading that wall of text but why does zeus lane better vs od than razor does mid seems strange maybe some 3k od game knowledge i dont have yet i srsly wanna know :O
also u might be decent od player but ur nowhere near pro players od level, ur amount of games played doesnt matter sorry : (
Analytical nature? It's actually called autism.
You think you can play OD like rtz or dendi? Knowing a gimmicky little trick doesn't compensate for mediocre mechanical ability relative to these other players, but let's not pretend that your weaknesses stop there. Your comments are a combination of meaningless ramblings and contradictions.
@Lman
At this point I just want to refer to the Dotabuff OD page ( http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/outworld-devourer ) listing Zeus as "Worst versus" right after Pugna. So why? The answer to this question rather is "why not"? Zeus is an int hero who doesn't rely on his auto attacks to get last hits. Zeus has a big range so he doesn't need to get Imprisoned anyway (except if he wants to, to gain additional free mana), he can't be hit by Sanity's Eclipse and ultimatively nukes just happen to counter OD pretty badly (notice Sand King being on that list as well), at level 6 he can almost instagib OD with one combo and he simply outharasses OD out of the lane, forcing him to use tons of regen and rarely go for last hits.
"Analytical nature? It's actually called autism."
I doubt you even know what autism is.
"You think you can play OD like rtz or dendi? Knowing a gimmicky little trick doesn't compensate for mediocre mechanical ability relative to these other players"
You think I have mediocre mechanical ability relative to those players? Wow, guess you never saw a single game from me. Nice claims based off of nothing but your brainfarts.
but let's not pretend that your weaknesses stop there. Your comments are a combination of meaningless ramblings and contradictions.
No. Your comments are. Because they don't even contain any arguments despite your typical "omg I know everything better" which I am pretty tired of.
4.5k is like a breeze i once played on my friends acc to 5k from 4.1k, with the countless amount of threads alr explaining that there's no elo hell in dota u still can't believe it . Moreover, the system here is flawed , even the admin acknowledged it at one point and ur trying to talk as if u deserve to be there when u are not . Some of those one hero only pickers I remember there was a treant and sand king who fared so much better than u. Slark is really good against terrible players .
I don't understand why some of u guys here are so proud of ur 3-5k games and yet u are stuck at a specific rating , it's not going to differentiate a guy who played the hero less than u and urself. It just means that he can pick up the hero much faster (most of the time ) than u
why dont u try tranq boots as od vs zeus im no od palyer tho
@wraithseeker
I know the Sand King and the PL guy (had the SK guy in my friendlist but he was really rude though, still have the PL guy in my friend list as he is a nice guy) and I can confirm that both of them are nothing more special than me. They have roughly the same MMR as me, they are being treated similarly (i.e. flamed by anyone else). The PL guy has a huge awesome winrate, but that one came from playing unranked and in stacks, his success in Solo Ranked is not any better than mine (or maybe it is slightly better than mine at some times).
I really don't want to talk any of these guys down as they are excellent players. But there is a limit to what you can do with a hero. You can win every game if you somehow can win 1v5. But in very high ranked games you can't. It's just impossible. Not with OD at least.
I'm also playing lots of Phoenix and he seems to be a lot easier/more versatile in every aspect.
why dont u try tranq boots as od vs zeus im no od palyer tho
Tranquil Boots break when you auto attack, and your main purpose as OD is to auto attack, which means you won't get any of its regeneration. You can get Bottle and a Stick, it's fine, it's just not insanely good. You will just be low HP more often, which usually means you will get ganked more often. The real problems start later anyway, when Zeus just nukes you down in clashes. Then you really would like to have a BKB or an Orchid or a Heart or something that can deal with all those nukes.
^
Well TAKI has 67.25% wr on PL and Pirate has 60.54% on SK while you have 49.9% on OD, I fail to see how you are equal to them.
lol this system is a joke. i could care less about your walls of text, but neither the slark nor the OD are real top 10 players at that hero. broken system is broken.
It wouldn't be fun if they just took the real top 10 players of a hero. There would ONLY be professional players there then.
Tl :dr The only point that I could pick out was dendi and rtz's OD suck ass and I'm so much better than them right @smaug.
What u completely fail to realize is that they are playing against competent opponents while u on the other hand are playing against monkeys and are literally comparing them when it's not a fair comparison.
They play against opponents who are better than their teammates (hence naturally losing lanes most of the time ) and then they have to carry their team in order to win (hence their high mmr).
Contracy to popular beliefs over here at dota buff, 4k is not that good
^4k does mean shit. Not all 4k players are crap, but there are more than enough idiots around 4k to make most games meaningless
Smaug has some good points.
@casual that was a typo
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
I want to remind you that in 2012 it was common practice in competitive games to max Arcane Orb first (before the Aura) on a safelane OD.
i can actually agree zeus seems kinda good vs od tho
"Well TAKI has 67.25% wr on PL and Pirate has 60.54% on SK while you have 49.9% on OD, I fail to see how you are equal to them."
Taki wins the same amount of games as me, he has the same rating, the only reason for his higher winrate is that he plays unranked/stacks more. It's no difference in terms of skill.
"What u completely fail to realize is that they are playing against competent opponents while u on the other hand are playing against monkeys and are literally comparing them when it's not a fair comparison."
This is incorrect, they play against the exact same pub players that I am playing against. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass please. And no matter how often you are going to repeat it, it remains true that both maxing Arcane Orb as well as rushing Aghanims Scepter (before 6.82) are very bad on OD, but still most pros did it.
"^4k does mean shit. Not all 4k players are crap, but there are more than enough idiots around 4k to make most games meaningless"
I'm playing against 5k and 6k and sometimes 7k players just as well.
in what game did a pro player max arcane orb before maxing aura this is unheard of even in lowtier dota 1 games
u would get flamed in garena europe room 46 for doing that shit lol
Autism really, no wonder u play with the op , both delusional players who don't understand crap.
Yeah go ur 4k against the. 6,7k like about 1 out of 30 matches ? And u are trying to use that to support your statement, if that's not autism that's called being mentally challenged.
I don't even pull stuff out of my ass, show me how exactly are they facing the same exact caliber of players that u face . That's called autism , mmr system from valve literally prevents that unless u tell me u can bypass the mmr balancing system in dota2 matchmaking.
ayyy whatathread
how can u lie to urself for so long wtf,
Do you honestly believe you belong in top 10 od?
Fuck the rules, formulas and statistics used to approximate the overall skill level of players. No one belongs in the top 10, 100 or whatever unless some stuck up individuals agree upon it.
no, you mean fuck that there is a better means of approximation of skill (mmr) when considering heroes, but that value isn't publicly available to stats website which results in convoluted formulas that wrongly distribute rankings