"..after being mentally worn off during 5000 games is quite decent. The social aspect is highly disregarded: when you play just one hero for thousands of times (of course, you still want to win, but) you do stuff that isn't done in general, things that aren't considered practical, for the sake of experimenting, discovering new possibilities, at the cost of losing games"
...just a crazy thought but this is all eliminated by playing other heroes.
^ How is that eliminated? I remember for example building Tranquil Boots on OD (back then when they triggered the Aura), everyone was constantly flaming me for that decision, some people would even go so far and destroy my items as a punishment for going such a retarded build. A few months later you are supposed to build Tranquils.
This also happens with counter picks. Remember when I complained about Razor being such a strong mid and everyone was like "omg OD rapes Razor mid, how can OD not totally destroy Razor?".
I'd go for the guy who played 5000 omni games simply because having 60% winrate in 350 games with Omni is unnatural, unless he is the best player in the world. It indicates that he probably stacks (like pretty much all of 60% winrate guys) or that he inflates his winrate (intentionally or unintentionally) by picking other heroes in between and losing games with them, so actually his 60% winrate is nothing special given that he only picks the hero after a loss streak.
To be more precise, a legitimate way to have a meaningfull 60% winrate doesn't exist. You can look at my games for example, I still have a fairly high winrate with Phoenix, higher than with OD. Not because I am an awesome Phoenix player. I just play with Phoenix to 5k MMR, then I practice OD and drop to 4600, then I play Phoenix again, and so on. So effectively, Phoenix just eats my winrate with OD. Since MMR is not tied to a hero, the 60% Omni guy has his winrate by losing games with other heroes, thus decreasing in MMR and then getting back to his original MMR again. So basically smurfing.
If you have a high winrate on a hero, it doesn't mean you're good with it. It just means you are not playing the hero in the skill bracket in which you should play. The only exception to this rule is if your MMR keeps increasing forever which basically means you're the best player in the world.
i looked at this thread, and im like "what the fuck is this?"
"To be more precise, a legitimate way to have a meaningfull 60% winrate doesn't exist"
what do you mean by this actually?
plenty of high mmr players have 60+ winrate with a hero played hundreds and sometimes thousands of times.
As long as you try to win and have fun it dsnt matter what hero you pick, playing dota means playing dota lmao. there is no such thing as natural in a video game.
Pirate plays pretty much only solo ranked, has 3k Sand King games and has 60% winrate. He could have 49% and be crying because he's not a core hero so he can't win games alone but he prefers to actually play well
" 1) MMR is not related to a certain hero, you DO NOT have hero specific MMR. As far as I am concerned, player Z might have reached 5.4k MMR by playing some retarded carry heroes like void/am (which are generally a breeze because people expect you to farm, most often help you and create ideal conditions to farm, then all you have to do is point and click a target). "
@Smaug
" I'd go for the guy who played 5000 omni games simply because having 60% winrate in 350 games with Omni is unnatural, unless he is the best player in the world. It indicates that he probably stacks (like pretty much all of 60% winrate guys) or that he inflates his winrate (intentionally or unintentionally) by picking other heroes in between and losing games with them, so actually his 60% winrate is nothing special given that he only picks the hero after a loss streak.
To be more precise, a legitimate way to have a meaningfull 60% winrate doesn't exist. You can look at my games for example, I still have a fairly high winrate with Phoenix, higher than with OD. Not because I am an awesome Phoenix player. I just play with Phoenix to 5k MMR, then I practice OD and drop to 4600, then I play Phoenix again, and so on. So effectively, Phoenix just eats my winrate with OD. Since MMR is not tied to a hero, the 60% Omni guy has his winrate by losing games with other heroes, thus decreasing in MMR and then getting back to his original MMR again. So basically smurfing.
If you have a high winrate on a hero, it doesn't mean you're good with it. It just means you are not playing the hero in the skill bracket in which you should play. The only exception to this rule is if your MMR keeps increasing forever which basically means you're the best player in the world. "
Did you guys even read my post carefully?
Given a scenario that these following [size=15]1-hero players [/size] who only play ranked games.
@Smaug
If you truly believe that having 60% winrate using 1 hero w/o stacking is impossible and "unnatural".
That's tunnel vision.
It's just an example. Yet, so much presumption coming from you.
^ I don't "believe it", I just proven it, and unless you can actually put arguments against it (which you didn't), it remains true and the only guy with Tunnel vision is you. You simply can't have 60% winrate without either abusing or increasing in MMR. It's impossible.
And if you stay at 5k MMR despite having 60% winrate or if you stay at 5k MMR with only 40% winrate doesn't change anything.
It's the exact same.
If your scenario is truly about 1 hero players, then yes, I'd probably choose Player Z (because he has higher MMR), but we don't actually have this scenario in the game, making it completely pointless. Out of those few OD players (iirc there are 2 or 3 in total), I am clearly one of the highest ranked ones. So I'd be easily in the top 10 legitimately.
Pirate plays pretty much only solo ranked, has 3k Sand King games and has 60% winrate. He could have 49% and be crying because he's not a core hero so he can't win games alone but he prefers to actually play well
But that's actually wrong. I myself have stacked with him in the past. His current winrate this month is 45%. He just has an inflated overall winrate, nothing else.
Wanna know the reason why you're still absolutely trash at the game after picking the same hero thousands of times?
Even though you think you "mastered" this hero, someone who is ACTUALLY skilled who've only played the hero 50 times would still play him better than you. Simply because the skilled player also has the same level of the skill across every other hero on the board. How can you expect to be a good dota player if you've only played a single hero thousands of times? You don't understand the mechanics and tricks behind every other hero so how can you expect to outplay them or outsmart them in game?
^
"I used Astral Imprisonment often for denies, but to get the timings right in terms of mana, it requires me to actually know the mana cost of other heroes spells. A big deficit that comes from not having played those heroes is that I don't know their mana cost at all. And I only recently began memorizing them. Same problem with Spell Cooldowns."
From your fellow one hero picker, smaug
Likewise playing any hero effectively involves knowing and keeping track of the cooldown of every important spell, their mana needs etc, but its not like thats relevant at your level...
Well, that may be a particular issue for the hero he's playing, to me "outplaying or outsmarting" isn't about memorizing spell mana cost and cool down, I deal with that instinctively. Instinct is the only thing you can rely on actually since there's no way to know for sure early game which spells are being lvl'd up, nor does it matter much mid-to-late game when mana isn't as much of a concern as it is in the incipit stage of a match.
Does stacking inflate? If you're playing in a stack you play against other stacks of "equal skill" so it's still down to a matter of stack or player skill.
Also from a factual and statistical stand point Pirate has only stacked about 25-30% of his games. It's a little hard to tell between what was in 5 stacks or what was a dual or triqueue so we have to make an intelligent guess but it's safe to say that he stacks very little or at last used to.
His most played with is a guy who he doesn't play with anymore and he seems to only really queue from time to time with Vortex. The guy he has queued with the most is on about 661 games out of about 4000 so I think he may queue 1 out of 5 games with friends which isn't really "inflating" winrate, the guy is just really good on the hero on in game overall.
Rough Estimates of Games he stacked.
6.82 - 15 games, 5 with Vortex only (33% stacking)
6.82b - 80 games, 18 with Vortex only (23% stacking)
6.82c - 50 games, 16 with Vortex only (36% stacking)
This Month - 80 games, 23 with Vortex only (29% stacking)
All Time - 3957 games (24% stacking or less given the availability of 3-5 man stacks)
That's an average of 31% of his games stacking with 1 friend who is the only guy he "stacks" with which isn't even really considered a stack e.g. 5 man games, with heavy winrate strats like global, or early rosh with aura stacking etc.
Since you took the effort to find out in which games he is stacking you could also have noted his winrate when he is stacking which would help this argument a lot more.
Anyway, assuming that he isn't inflating his winrate through stacking, you still need to provide a reason why he doesn't have at least 7k or 8k MMR (as he should have with 60% winrate).
^ deflated winrate. I inflated my winrate by picking Phoenix, then deflated it by picking OD. Nothing surprising.
I have the same MMR with OD now that I had when I got calibrated, so whatever excuses you are trying to bring, it doesn't change the fact, that I would ACTUALLY be at exactly 50% winrate (actually slightly above it) with OD, if I only played him.
"How is this a top100 OD player statistic?"
What is a top100 OD player statistic? The top 100 compares the statistics between OD players, not between OD and Sand King players. Some heroes can easily climb MMR, some others can't. Almost 50% of my losses at least in the last 2 weeks are from trolls intentional feeding/going dual mid or other idiotic trollmoves.
882 ranked games.
30% or 265 of those are with a friend. (estimated)
That leaves 617 ranked games (estimated)
Based on his winrate we know that he won about 333 games in ranked solo.
Only 3.63% of that was actual MMR gained.
That amounts to only about 300+ shifted MMR.
The weakness in this is that he plays more unranked than ranked and his solo unranked win rate is much higher than that of ranked and this we know. It's surprising when you actually take the time to work this basic stuff out how quickly the answer is right in front of you.
"you still need to provide a reason why he doesn't have at least 7k or 8k MMR"
He's only gained 3.65% rating since calibration which amounts to 300 +/= MMR...does this answer your question clearly enough?
A player with 9 games on storm smashed a player with 3K games on OD http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1018843038 this leads me to believe that you're good on a less then ideal hero who is weaker vs most of the average mids. In fact I only remember 1 game in the last year where OD actually scared me as a pick. You're good at a bad hero, and your gaming mechanics are weak as are your items choices in most game.
Again, I think your ok but your shooting yourself here by playing a weak hero, whose been bad in almost every meta, and you're playing him with tired mechanics. This is why to some extent I have been decently successful with a large amount of games because I play literally every hero so I can adjust to anything really.......except mid.
"Because playing thousands of times the same hero makes you completely oblivious to what other players do, right? Pathetic."
Yes it does. Take a look at yourself. You have over 6000 games on easily one of the most hardest pubstomping heroes yet you only have like 2 variations on your build. One being a completely trash (dagon? srsly?). Its the same reason why you almost have 7000 games played yet have the same mmr as someone who's only played the game for a few months.
A player with 9 games on storm smashed a player with 3K games on OD http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1018843038 this leads me to believe that you're good on a less then ideal hero who is weaker vs most of the average mids.
You better don't take conclusions from one single game, I made a couple of mistakes, most importantly the firstblood:
I crushed Storm mid very hard, then he had like 1 HP when he walked into the trees and I kept chasing him like an idiot (although I should have just gone back). So what did I do such a noobish mistake? Well, here are some reasons for it (not excuses, reasons):
- I am a very greedy and far sighted player. I saw my first blood literally 1 last hit away, basically in range. A first blood which gave me instant bottle and completely destroyed his lane. Then I would snowball from that like I usually do and easily get my +25 points.
- I have recently put a gem on my Staff that tracks firstbloods, it's currently only at 10 or so
- I kinda tunnel visioned and was not noticing my HP enough. A problem that I have already for a long time and still have no clue how to solve
- Yesterday I got a double kill by doing a similar tower dive (that I didn't expect to survive and thought it was a mistake, but in the end I survived it)
- My coach told me to play very aggressive and "it's fine if you feed, you just need to learn to play aggressively!"
So all this was implicit or explicit in my brain and thus the rule that I noted earlier ("don't fucking dive the enemy tower even if the enemy has only 1 HP left and it's first blood!") was pretty far away from me. It got renewed and strengthened with this match so that it doesn't happen again.
All the things you listed above are things you should have learnt in your first 1000 matches, why would you not play aggressively in mid or any lane for that matter if you have an equal or greater advantage.
....but the point remains that someone with far better game mechanics managed to take a hero he never plays and win practically solo from a lane which you should have been controlling. I think you have to accept a few things here and what people feel you're constantly missing.
1. You aren't that good a player mechanically, and you got outlaned in the few games of yours I actually watched and these were games where you were still doing ok.
2. You're experienced with a hero that is weak given the average mid, which is losing you more games cause you're blindly picking your go-to hero regardless of enemy or allied picks which is appalling actually. If I regularly met you in pubs I would straight up dodge you.
It's almost apparent that you're not that good a mid player. Did you not think that maybe mid isn't your thing? I worked that out long ago where I was just endlessly losing mid and I realized that it went two ways...
1. I wasn't that good a mid, even where I did well it was much poorer performance than others.
2. I am much better in lanes where I can win lanes as a support or offlane (carrying only where required)
I appreciate that dedicating so much time and effort just to have people put you down sucks really hard, but you know what? Your stats also put you down and it seems apparent to everyone but you what is wrong, and if you want to improve something has to change and I think it should be your heroes.
I think you should change heroes because your mechanics are so bad and so deeply ingrained with OD that making improvement on him would be hard, play a hero you have never played before and try and learn that (Ember, TA, Storm) that way you can start with a fresh mode of thinking.
Honestly smaug why not give another mid a shot. Play some TA, tinker invoker or something with a higher skill cap. OD is a brainless hero that anyone with average game sense can use to dominate a lane, it doesnt take skill. You know what they say about od and viper... wins lanes, loses games.
Trash od with trash mechanics can't get past 5k in thousands of games. Ayyyy lmao.
As lman said, swiftending already proved you wrong. Though it needs a new experiment in this new cumbag patch just because of how it's harder to snowball and keep the advantage.
@EJ
swiftending hasn't proven anything. Neither has he stomped 5k ranked games, nor has he stomped with OD, so I seriously have no clue why you even mention him, he has like absolutely nothing to do with this.
Btw, if you didn't notice, you just flamed me pretty hard.
@Androgynous
Because I don't give a crap about the ranking (I don't earn anything from it but hate) and I want to improve on my play so that I can start playing/spamming OD competitively.
@Wei_
I used to play 200 games Leshrac mid. I play Phoenix mid. I used to play lots of Puck mid. I tried out TA and QoP a few games as well (didn't like either one), honestly, if I want to I could just do it like everyone else, pick a bunch of heroes, some are actually fun (as I disconvered during the hero challenge, such as Dazzle), and could just become a standard normal pro player, maybe even a good one (you know a pro player that is on pro-level).
So why am I refusing to do this? Because I like OD, and I like Phoenix, and I imagine I would totally like to become a feared OD/Phoenix player that other people respect (and ban every game). Of course people could later respect me for playing other heroes great, but unfortunately I don't identify myself with those heroes, I don't have any kind of immersion, I could as well stop playing Dota and focus on Programming which I am better at anyway. For me, being OD/Phoenix is what I want to be like.
I would totally like to become a feared OD/Phoenix.....and how many more thousand games will that take? You will probably never be feared because most one trick ponies aren't sadly.
swiftending didn't prove anything and he has nothing to do with this? that's just denying the facts as with all the other things said about you how trash you are, etc.
Stay bad and pls don't act as if you're any good because you aren't.
you made a thread a while ago complaining about how pro players still had a higher score on OD than you, but they didn't have to grind 3k games with the hero, and then a dotabuff staff member informs you that your ranking is actually inflated anyway. that was pretty funny
plus you're always trying to find excuses for how you're not bad at OD when someone brings it up
Don't lie, I didn't complain about them being higher than me, I complained about them being too high (i.e. higher than anyone). I use the ranking to find other good OD players to watch their games and copy their ideas, and it was clear that several people definitely didn't belong into that list because when I watched their games I had to facepalm so often it isn't even funny, not to mention the fact that both Black and Qojqva are playing the hero so rarely that they don't even have replays available and their high winrate/kda games were from years ago i.e. completely outdated.
"plus you're always trying to find excuses for how you're not bad at OD when someone brings it up"
"Excuses". Attribution error much?
The reasons why you claim I was bad are utter bullshit that make no actual sense. I'm not finding excuses, I am telling you the truth.
> Start with no healing as OD, which I guess is ok if you were going for fast bottle but you spent all your cash on a null + mantle
> You could have kept bullying him but dove at the tower with 1.5 creeps waves still there and radiant is the easiest to lose vision.
> Storm has easy bottle and you buy tangos and walk mid cause you have no gold for TP
> After 1:05 firstblood you give him a second solo kill by 2:50
> 4:00 you give another kill away after trying to be clever and holding astral till the last moment to do a "wow, such skill" save.
.....you keep taking creep aggro trying to astral uphill, and you refuse to use tangos to keep your health up.
> 6 minutes in storm is 4-0 with 15 last hits and a midas, you're 0-3 with 28 last hits. You haven't won your lane you have totally let it run out of control, last hits doesn't mean a won lane.
> You get two kills on the supports at the cost of the Jakiro but still a win at this point.
> Storm is clearing a massive stack him and Crystal Maiden have made and he is now sitting quite far ahead of you in gold with a midas despite being 8 last hits behind you.
> You're catching up now with some help from the wisp and ogre, sitting on 5-3 and get a kill on storm which gives you a lot of gold and you get your blink dagger.
.....I did also notice that despite getting a late bottle you have only grabbed one rune, mostly because you're sitting mid and not moving making the map safe because they know you will always be there, and you quite vulnerable cause they know where you'll be at almost all times.
> You move closer to storm instead of trying to astral and he then turns it with silencer and gets another kill on you.
> You astral yourself in front of an oncoming 5 man push and then blink to get a Crystal Maiden in the middle of the thick which kills her and you. Not worth the trade.
> You're jungling while your team gets wrecked, and you have an ult to use but continue farming, and you haven't had any item progression in about 9 minutes.
....you use your astrals randomly which either kills you or your team mates 60% of the time, it does no damage to the enemy so when they come out of it they are just slightly lower on intelligence, nothing more. I have spotted countless times where you could have saved your team mates with an astral but either through complete lack of awareness or cooldowns you never do. You have astralled Centaur who then blinks the moment he's out either killing a team mate or getting away.
> You turn to insulting your team over all chat when I am unsure it was them that cause this devastating turn of events.
> You haven't used your ult since like 10 minutes and you've been holding in in multiple team fights where it would have helped, if not to kill it removes mana (my understanding)
Are you worth the toplist. After this game I can 100% say that you're 100% not. There is nothing I have seen in this game or the other two I have watched that have impressed me or where I have gone "this guy seems experienced". Mediocre plays on a mediocre hero. Sorry that's the way I see it.
I Like reading such threads and i learn too many new things and havoc makes me cri everitim with his info wall texts :D :)
I also like to play the dotas
the dotas are nice
nice
ice
ce
e
"..after being mentally worn off during 5000 games is quite decent. The social aspect is highly disregarded: when you play just one hero for thousands of times (of course, you still want to win, but) you do stuff that isn't done in general, things that aren't considered practical, for the sake of experimenting, discovering new possibilities, at the cost of losing games"
...just a crazy thought but this is all eliminated by playing other heroes.
^ How is that eliminated? I remember for example building Tranquil Boots on OD (back then when they triggered the Aura), everyone was constantly flaming me for that decision, some people would even go so far and destroy my items as a punishment for going such a retarded build. A few months later you are supposed to build Tranquils.
This also happens with counter picks. Remember when I complained about Razor being such a strong mid and everyone was like "omg OD rapes Razor mid, how can OD not totally destroy Razor?".
I'd go for the guy who played 5000 omni games simply because having 60% winrate in 350 games with Omni is unnatural, unless he is the best player in the world. It indicates that he probably stacks (like pretty much all of 60% winrate guys) or that he inflates his winrate (intentionally or unintentionally) by picking other heroes in between and losing games with them, so actually his 60% winrate is nothing special given that he only picks the hero after a loss streak.
To be more precise, a legitimate way to have a meaningfull 60% winrate doesn't exist. You can look at my games for example, I still have a fairly high winrate with Phoenix, higher than with OD. Not because I am an awesome Phoenix player. I just play with Phoenix to 5k MMR, then I practice OD and drop to 4600, then I play Phoenix again, and so on. So effectively, Phoenix just eats my winrate with OD. Since MMR is not tied to a hero, the 60% Omni guy has his winrate by losing games with other heroes, thus decreasing in MMR and then getting back to his original MMR again. So basically smurfing.
If you have a high winrate on a hero, it doesn't mean you're good with it. It just means you are not playing the hero in the skill bracket in which you should play. The only exception to this rule is if your MMR keeps increasing forever which basically means you're the best player in the world.
i looked at this thread, and im like "what the fuck is this?"
"To be more precise, a legitimate way to have a meaningfull 60% winrate doesn't exist"
what do you mean by this actually?
plenty of high mmr players have 60+ winrate with a hero played hundreds and sometimes thousands of times.
@laviolette most of them have them by stacknig (if not all with over 200 games)
So you think that playing one hero is the "natural" way to play dota? Lmao
As long as you try to win and have fun it dsnt matter what hero you pick, playing dota means playing dota lmao. there is no such thing as natural in a video game.
Pirate plays pretty much only solo ranked, has 3k Sand King games and has 60% winrate. He could have 49% and be crying because he's not a core hero so he can't win games alone but he prefers to actually play well
well i wasn't flaming, i was just questioning his idea of "u can't have 60% winrate" whereas pirate is a solo player and has 60% winrate.
@666 MMR
" 1) MMR is not related to a certain hero, you DO NOT have hero specific MMR. As far as I am concerned, player Z might have reached 5.4k MMR by playing some retarded carry heroes like void/am (which are generally a breeze because people expect you to farm, most often help you and create ideal conditions to farm, then all you have to do is point and click a target). "
@Smaug
" I'd go for the guy who played 5000 omni games simply because having 60% winrate in 350 games with Omni is unnatural, unless he is the best player in the world. It indicates that he probably stacks (like pretty much all of 60% winrate guys) or that he inflates his winrate (intentionally or unintentionally) by picking other heroes in between and losing games with them, so actually his 60% winrate is nothing special given that he only picks the hero after a loss streak.
To be more precise, a legitimate way to have a meaningfull 60% winrate doesn't exist. You can look at my games for example, I still have a fairly high winrate with Phoenix, higher than with OD. Not because I am an awesome Phoenix player. I just play with Phoenix to 5k MMR, then I practice OD and drop to 4600, then I play Phoenix again, and so on. So effectively, Phoenix just eats my winrate with OD. Since MMR is not tied to a hero, the 60% Omni guy has his winrate by losing games with other heroes, thus decreasing in MMR and then getting back to his original MMR again. So basically smurfing.
If you have a high winrate on a hero, it doesn't mean you're good with it. It just means you are not playing the hero in the skill bracket in which you should play. The only exception to this rule is if your MMR keeps increasing forever which basically means you're the best player in the world. "
Did you guys even read my post carefully?
Given a scenario that these following [size=15]1-hero players [/size] who only play ranked games.
@Smaug
If you truly believe that having 60% winrate using 1 hero w/o stacking is impossible and "unnatural".
That's tunnel vision.
It's just an example. Yet, so much presumption coming from you.
^ I don't "believe it", I just proven it, and unless you can actually put arguments against it (which you didn't), it remains true and the only guy with Tunnel vision is you. You simply can't have 60% winrate without either abusing or increasing in MMR. It's impossible.
And if you stay at 5k MMR despite having 60% winrate or if you stay at 5k MMR with only 40% winrate doesn't change anything.
It's the exact same.
If your scenario is truly about 1 hero players, then yes, I'd probably choose Player Z (because he has higher MMR), but we don't actually have this scenario in the game, making it completely pointless. Out of those few OD players (iirc there are 2 or 3 in total), I am clearly one of the highest ranked ones. So I'd be easily in the top 10 legitimately.
Pirate plays pretty much only solo ranked, has 3k Sand King games and has 60% winrate. He could have 49% and be crying because he's not a core hero so he can't win games alone but he prefers to actually play well
But that's actually wrong. I myself have stacked with him in the past. His current winrate this month is 45%. He just has an inflated overall winrate, nothing else.
TIL my winrates above 49% are all inflated....and here I thought I was actually good at some heroes.
^u filthy exploiter
I don't think this kid realises how stupid his arguments are though
he means its inflated cos he played in stacks.. which is true
Wanna know the reason why you're still absolutely trash at the game after picking the same hero thousands of times?
Even though you think you "mastered" this hero, someone who is ACTUALLY skilled who've only played the hero 50 times would still play him better than you. Simply because the skilled player also has the same level of the skill across every other hero on the board. How can you expect to be a good dota player if you've only played a single hero thousands of times? You don't understand the mechanics and tricks behind every other hero so how can you expect to outplay them or outsmart them in game?
"You don't understand the mechanics and tricks behind every other hero so how can you expect to outplay them or outsmart them in game?"
Because playing thousands of times the same hero makes you completely oblivious to what other players do, right? Pathetic.
^
"I used Astral Imprisonment often for denies, but to get the timings right in terms of mana, it requires me to actually know the mana cost of other heroes spells. A big deficit that comes from not having played those heroes is that I don't know their mana cost at all. And I only recently began memorizing them. Same problem with Spell Cooldowns."
From your fellow one hero picker, smaug
Likewise playing any hero effectively involves knowing and keeping track of the cooldown of every important spell, their mana needs etc, but its not like thats relevant at your level...
Yea it's true Pirate stacked 2500 games of his 3k games LMAO you're so delusional
Devilish has 7.3k MMR by spamming Meepo on solo ranked, OMG how does he do that? Over 50% is impossible!
Well, that may be a particular issue for the hero he's playing, to me "outplaying or outsmarting" isn't about memorizing spell mana cost and cool down, I deal with that instinctively. Instinct is the only thing you can rely on actually since there's no way to know for sure early game which spells are being lvl'd up, nor does it matter much mid-to-late game when mana isn't as much of a concern as it is in the incipit stage of a match.
Does stacking inflate? If you're playing in a stack you play against other stacks of "equal skill" so it's still down to a matter of stack or player skill.
Also from a factual and statistical stand point Pirate has only stacked about 25-30% of his games. It's a little hard to tell between what was in 5 stacks or what was a dual or triqueue so we have to make an intelligent guess but it's safe to say that he stacks very little or at last used to.
His most played with is a guy who he doesn't play with anymore and he seems to only really queue from time to time with Vortex. The guy he has queued with the most is on about 661 games out of about 4000 so I think he may queue 1 out of 5 games with friends which isn't really "inflating" winrate, the guy is just really good on the hero on in game overall.
Rough Estimates of Games he stacked.
6.82 - 15 games, 5 with Vortex only (33% stacking)
6.82b - 80 games, 18 with Vortex only (23% stacking)
6.82c - 50 games, 16 with Vortex only (36% stacking)
This Month - 80 games, 23 with Vortex only (29% stacking)
All Time - 3957 games (24% stacking or less given the availability of 3-5 man stacks)
That's an average of 31% of his games stacking with 1 friend who is the only guy he "stacks" with which isn't even really considered a stack e.g. 5 man games, with heavy winrate strats like global, or early rosh with aura stacking etc.
Since you took the effort to find out in which games he is stacking you could also have noted his winrate when he is stacking which would help this argument a lot more.
Anyway, assuming that he isn't inflating his winrate through stacking, you still need to provide a reason why he doesn't have at least 7k or 8k MMR (as he should have with 60% winrate).
Because he has only 882 ranked games with 53.63% winrate... can you please look the data before asking questions? And AFAIK he's almost 6k
And you have 42.93% winrate and 2.33 KDA in 580 ranked games. How is this a top100 OD player statistic?
^ deflated winrate. I inflated my winrate by picking Phoenix, then deflated it by picking OD. Nothing surprising.
I have the same MMR with OD now that I had when I got calibrated, so whatever excuses you are trying to bring, it doesn't change the fact, that I would ACTUALLY be at exactly 50% winrate (actually slightly above it) with OD, if I only played him.
"How is this a top100 OD player statistic?"
What is a top100 OD player statistic? The top 100 compares the statistics between OD players, not between OD and Sand King players. Some heroes can easily climb MMR, some others can't. Almost 50% of my losses at least in the last 2 weeks are from trolls intentional feeding/going dual mid or other idiotic trollmoves.
Havent we been through this already, do you need another fucking juice experiment for this
I bet any 6k player can pick OD on your account and climb MMR easily in your bracket.
882 ranked games.
30% or 265 of those are with a friend. (estimated)
That leaves 617 ranked games (estimated)
Based on his winrate we know that he won about 333 games in ranked solo.
Only 3.63% of that was actual MMR gained.
That amounts to only about 300+ shifted MMR.
The weakness in this is that he plays more unranked than ranked and his solo unranked win rate is much higher than that of ranked and this we know. It's surprising when you actually take the time to work this basic stuff out how quickly the answer is right in front of you.
"you still need to provide a reason why he doesn't have at least 7k or 8k MMR"
He's only gained 3.65% rating since calibration which amounts to 300 +/= MMR...does this answer your question clearly enough?
A player with 9 games on storm smashed a player with 3K games on OD http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1018843038 this leads me to believe that you're good on a less then ideal hero who is weaker vs most of the average mids. In fact I only remember 1 game in the last year where OD actually scared me as a pick. You're good at a bad hero, and your gaming mechanics are weak as are your items choices in most game.
Again, I think your ok but your shooting yourself here by playing a weak hero, whose been bad in almost every meta, and you're playing him with tired mechanics. This is why to some extent I have been decently successful with a large amount of games because I play literally every hero so I can adjust to anything really.......except mid.
"Because playing thousands of times the same hero makes you completely oblivious to what other players do, right? Pathetic."
Yes it does. Take a look at yourself. You have over 6000 games on easily one of the most hardest pubstomping heroes yet you only have like 2 variations on your build. One being a completely trash (dagon? srsly?). Its the same reason why you almost have 7000 games played yet have the same mmr as someone who's only played the game for a few months.
2 variations on my build?! :DDD
And those are games which I've played in a couple days. Anyway, full retard detected, moving on.
You have Autism.
I'll take your diagnosis for granted. Thank you.
can someone give a good player a 4500 mmr account and let him play only od and see where that gets him
^ I would actually donate money for him.
A player with 9 games on storm smashed a player with 3K games on OD http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1018843038 this leads me to believe that you're good on a less then ideal hero who is weaker vs most of the average mids.
You better don't take conclusions from one single game, I made a couple of mistakes, most importantly the firstblood:
I crushed Storm mid very hard, then he had like 1 HP when he walked into the trees and I kept chasing him like an idiot (although I should have just gone back). So what did I do such a noobish mistake? Well, here are some reasons for it (not excuses, reasons):
- I am a very greedy and far sighted player. I saw my first blood literally 1 last hit away, basically in range. A first blood which gave me instant bottle and completely destroyed his lane. Then I would snowball from that like I usually do and easily get my +25 points.
- I have recently put a gem on my Staff that tracks firstbloods, it's currently only at 10 or so
- I kinda tunnel visioned and was not noticing my HP enough. A problem that I have already for a long time and still have no clue how to solve
- Yesterday I got a double kill by doing a similar tower dive (that I didn't expect to survive and thought it was a mistake, but in the end I survived it)
- My coach told me to play very aggressive and "it's fine if you feed, you just need to learn to play aggressively!"
So all this was implicit or explicit in my brain and thus the rule that I noted earlier ("don't fucking dive the enemy tower even if the enemy has only 1 HP left and it's first blood!") was pretty far away from me. It got renewed and strengthened with this match so that it doesn't happen again.
All the things you listed above are things you should have learnt in your first 1000 matches, why would you not play aggressively in mid or any lane for that matter if you have an equal or greater advantage.
....but the point remains that someone with far better game mechanics managed to take a hero he never plays and win practically solo from a lane which you should have been controlling. I think you have to accept a few things here and what people feel you're constantly missing.
1. You aren't that good a player mechanically, and you got outlaned in the few games of yours I actually watched and these were games where you were still doing ok.
2. You're experienced with a hero that is weak given the average mid, which is losing you more games cause you're blindly picking your go-to hero regardless of enemy or allied picks which is appalling actually. If I regularly met you in pubs I would straight up dodge you.
It's almost apparent that you're not that good a mid player. Did you not think that maybe mid isn't your thing? I worked that out long ago where I was just endlessly losing mid and I realized that it went two ways...
1. I wasn't that good a mid, even where I did well it was much poorer performance than others.
2. I am much better in lanes where I can win lanes as a support or offlane (carrying only where required)
I appreciate that dedicating so much time and effort just to have people put you down sucks really hard, but you know what? Your stats also put you down and it seems apparent to everyone but you what is wrong, and if you want to improve something has to change and I think it should be your heroes.
I think you should change heroes because your mechanics are so bad and so deeply ingrained with OD that making improvement on him would be hard, play a hero you have never played before and try and learn that (Ember, TA, Storm) that way you can start with a fresh mode of thinking.
why do you need a coach if you're #1
^ Some people can't see their own weaknesses and improve on them as is apparent with Smaug.
Honestly smaug why not give another mid a shot. Play some TA, tinker invoker or something with a higher skill cap. OD is a brainless hero that anyone with average game sense can use to dominate a lane, it doesnt take skill. You know what they say about od and viper... wins lanes, loses games.
Trash od with trash mechanics can't get past 5k in thousands of games. Ayyyy lmao.
As lman said, swiftending already proved you wrong. Though it needs a new experiment in this new cumbag patch just because of how it's harder to snowball and keep the advantage.
@EJ
swiftending hasn't proven anything. Neither has he stomped 5k ranked games, nor has he stomped with OD, so I seriously have no clue why you even mention him, he has like absolutely nothing to do with this.
Btw, if you didn't notice, you just flamed me pretty hard.
@Androgynous
Because I don't give a crap about the ranking (I don't earn anything from it but hate) and I want to improve on my play so that I can start playing/spamming OD competitively.
@Wei_
I used to play 200 games Leshrac mid. I play Phoenix mid. I used to play lots of Puck mid. I tried out TA and QoP a few games as well (didn't like either one), honestly, if I want to I could just do it like everyone else, pick a bunch of heroes, some are actually fun (as I disconvered during the hero challenge, such as Dazzle), and could just become a standard normal pro player, maybe even a good one (you know a pro player that is on pro-level).
So why am I refusing to do this? Because I like OD, and I like Phoenix, and I imagine I would totally like to become a feared OD/Phoenix player that other people respect (and ban every game). Of course people could later respect me for playing other heroes great, but unfortunately I don't identify myself with those heroes, I don't have any kind of immersion, I could as well stop playing Dota and focus on Programming which I am better at anyway. For me, being OD/Phoenix is what I want to be like.
i want to be a bird
I would totally like to become a feared OD/Phoenix.....and how many more thousand games will that take? You will probably never be feared because most one trick ponies aren't sadly.
ill play 10 od games in a moment
does he go mid or carry with od? just to play the same role
swiftending didn't prove anything and he has nothing to do with this? that's just denying the facts as with all the other things said about you how trash you are, etc.
Stay bad and pls don't act as if you're any good because you aren't.
i picked od mid but it looks like some motherfuker is going to dual me mid gg
seems like he wont ruin - lucky :D
"Because I don't give a crap about the ranking"
you made a thread a while ago complaining about how pro players still had a higher score on OD than you, but they didn't have to grind 3k games with the hero, and then a dotabuff staff member informs you that your ranking is actually inflated anyway. that was pretty funny
plus you're always trying to find excuses for how you're not bad at OD when someone brings it up
@Androgynous
Don't lie, I didn't complain about them being higher than me, I complained about them being too high (i.e. higher than anyone). I use the ranking to find other good OD players to watch their games and copy their ideas, and it was clear that several people definitely didn't belong into that list because when I watched their games I had to facepalm so often it isn't even funny, not to mention the fact that both Black and Qojqva are playing the hero so rarely that they don't even have replays available and their high winrate/kda games were from years ago i.e. completely outdated.
"plus you're always trying to find excuses for how you're not bad at OD when someone brings it up"
"Excuses". Attribution error much?
The reasons why you claim I was bad are utter bullshit that make no actual sense. I'm not finding excuses, I am telling you the truth.
> Start with no healing as OD, which I guess is ok if you were going for fast bottle but you spent all your cash on a null + mantle
> You could have kept bullying him but dove at the tower with 1.5 creeps waves still there and radiant is the easiest to lose vision.
> Storm has easy bottle and you buy tangos and walk mid cause you have no gold for TP
> After 1:05 firstblood you give him a second solo kill by 2:50
> 4:00 you give another kill away after trying to be clever and holding astral till the last moment to do a "wow, such skill" save.
.....you keep taking creep aggro trying to astral uphill, and you refuse to use tangos to keep your health up.
> 6 minutes in storm is 4-0 with 15 last hits and a midas, you're 0-3 with 28 last hits. You haven't won your lane you have totally let it run out of control, last hits doesn't mean a won lane.
> You get two kills on the supports at the cost of the Jakiro but still a win at this point.
> Storm is clearing a massive stack him and Crystal Maiden have made and he is now sitting quite far ahead of you in gold with a midas despite being 8 last hits behind you.
> You're catching up now with some help from the wisp and ogre, sitting on 5-3 and get a kill on storm which gives you a lot of gold and you get your blink dagger.
.....I did also notice that despite getting a late bottle you have only grabbed one rune, mostly because you're sitting mid and not moving making the map safe because they know you will always be there, and you quite vulnerable cause they know where you'll be at almost all times.
> You move closer to storm instead of trying to astral and he then turns it with silencer and gets another kill on you.
> You astral yourself in front of an oncoming 5 man push and then blink to get a Crystal Maiden in the middle of the thick which kills her and you. Not worth the trade.
> You're jungling while your team gets wrecked, and you have an ult to use but continue farming, and you haven't had any item progression in about 9 minutes.
....you use your astrals randomly which either kills you or your team mates 60% of the time, it does no damage to the enemy so when they come out of it they are just slightly lower on intelligence, nothing more. I have spotted countless times where you could have saved your team mates with an astral but either through complete lack of awareness or cooldowns you never do. You have astralled Centaur who then blinks the moment he's out either killing a team mate or getting away.
> You turn to insulting your team over all chat when I am unsure it was them that cause this devastating turn of events.
> You haven't used your ult since like 10 minutes and you've been holding in in multiple team fights where it would have helped, if not to kill it removes mana (my understanding)
Are you worth the toplist. After this game I can 100% say that you're 100% not. There is nothing I have seen in this game or the other two I have watched that have impressed me or where I have gone "this guy seems experienced". Mediocre plays on a mediocre hero. Sorry that's the way I see it.