seems like a waste for hereoes that eat hard camps very easily (naix ursa) to get it.
havent jungled since forever tho.
Uh no naix doesn't kill hard camps well until like level 3 or 4. Same with ursa. This lets them greatly accelerate their first couple levels and overall farm.
The Iron Shit as you call it falls off really hard once you have some damage, but that's a 500 gold investment that provides some armor, a quelling blade and an active that lets you do huge nuke damage to a large creep every 14 seconds. Now I can go fuck a hard camp as LC at 0:30, kill it, come back for another one (possibly now I am level 2 too so I can use the heal as well), then nuke another big creep, then go farm medium camp for the first time, and get my level 3 sometimes before my midlaner.
The only issue is how you start with it, do you get regen + talon or quelling stout ring or something, because I'm the happiest when I can get a rune, that means I can actually complete the item and have both stout shield and talon at :30, but since that's usually not the case I've learned to go stout quelling rop with and kill medium camp first, get money for talon and go kill the hard camp.
Jungle Legion expert here, think there's another jungle Legion expert on these forums too. Kappa
I don't like it on her, fucking falls off too hard, might sound nice in hindsight when reading the definition, but it's not as good as it seems on her. Just a quelling blade is all you need.
Lvl 6 at 5 minutes of jungling is really bad, I guess. And a min 6 blink. Iron Talon is all about the investment that pays for itself. It doesn't matter that it falls off hard because it returns the investment during the first 3 minutes of use, and the levels are crucial and comparable to a midas early on.
Okay, but the thing is, your team will like it, because you've already picked a jungler and decided to forfeit the lanes, getting out of the jungle faster and with more levels can make a huge difference.
hello i'm a legion jungle expert and i like getting blink at the 7 min mark with the iron talon thingy it's quite balanced no sarcasm intended cya
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2021429247
SPECTRE WANTED TO REPORT ME BECAUSE LEGION JUNGLE IS BAD SHE YELLED IN MIC THEN EVERYONE REPORTED HER FOR BEING USELESS ROFL GEEEEEEET DUNKEEEEEEEEED ON
OH AND BTW MY BUILD IS THE FOLLOWING
IRON TALON AND TANGOES
YOU LITERRALY DONT NEED ANYTHING ELSE SINCE YOUR MAX YOUR PASSIVE AND W, I LITERRALY WAS FULL HP ALL THE TIME ROFL
it is amazing on legion and naix if you choose to jungle them
course jungling them is generally the wrong thing to do
Empty, I used to be convinced it's the wrong thing to do, but with Iron Talon you don't actually strain the team as much if you just leave the jungle and go gank every lane @ 7th minute. I mean obviously your lanes are going to be weaker but if you intended to play LC and got a clueless lane partner, you just would not be able to do much, or you can be against a trilane where you won't get much farm, and that's the offlane slot for you. I think in low level pubs jungling is pretty good if you pull it off well but that's normal/high skill.
Yeah, sure, getting your lvl 6 and blink earlier is complete waste. Killing hard camps early is a complete waste. I can't grasp your logic at all. Or do you BELIEVE that it does not help?
i can get lvl 3 around 2 mins easily without this talon, talon is only good on lc when shes lower than 3 so i wont even waste on a rop and recipe just to get fast 6 and then blink, when u can get 6 and blink at the same time anyway. heard of choke points and stacking camps, too ez.
get two easy camp = lvl 2 - 1min
get two med camp = lvl 3 - ~ 2 min
hit lvl6 around 6 mins.
ur not even half hp after this. I always take the usual stout,tango,qb and branch
"I'm thinking it's better than having 2 supports for the first time" nope
You might not feel it because you're in the jungle, but you've made the game way harder for every other player on your team. If your opponent has a big enough advantage in early game and is able to capitalize on that, they'll just steam roll your team before you're even ready to contribute. Basically, they have to pick up whatever slack there is until you contribute 10-15 minutes into the game. That's 10-15 minutes of 4v5.
its so op i picked invoker went to gank naix in jungle but he had armlet 7 min so i just said gg its over [again]
Hatsune, that's bullshit. You get faster levels and gold, that's a fucking fact, and there's nothing you can do around it. Having a 40% HP nuke every 14 seconds is extremely useful IF YOU ARE NOT BRAIN DEAD and know how to time it right. Now, since yoo think min6 lvl6 is fast enough, I won't argue, because obviously you can do better, you just don't care to.
"You might not feel it because you're in the jungle, but you've made the game way harder for every other player on your team. If your opponent has a big enough advantage in early game and is able to capitalize on that, they'll just steam roll your team before you're even ready to contribute. Basically, they have to pick up whatever slack there is until you contribute 10-15 minutes into the game. That's 10-15 minutes of 4v5."
Why the fuck would you spend 10-15 minutes in the jungle, that's ridiculous. At most you'd spend like 6-7. With talon at least.
^what the fuck does your post have to do with anything, I deleted it because of a retarded exploit, it has nothing to do with the subject.
cause i don't want people who don't play dota to give advice on it
and i'm sure nobody would
Yeah, and I am sure I wouldn't want some animetards telling me what to do, or not to do. Even if I never played DotA, if I said that early jungling with Talon is faster, it'd still be a fucking fact. I also don't like people telling me how the things are, if they have never tried it and seen for themselves, and guess what, you don't seem to be one of those people who has actually tried what's being discussed, so you're probably a huge hypocrite, because even though I've deleted DotA temporarily, it's you who doesn't know shit about the subject being discussed.
^Yes, that's why you need to time it right so you do the most damage. If you get hellbears at lvl1 hard camp, you just nuke the red one as you approach, then kill it, then as it comes off CD you are pulling the creeps in order to stack, you hit the yellow one with the nuke, but you're low so you go to the medium camp to heal up and get lvl 2, so you farm that, use talon once more on the large creep (start attacking small creeps if talon is on CD), etc. Basically, you can equate it to a number of attacks, it really does speed up the jungling and your early xpm and gpm will be greater with a bit of practice with it. But it becomes useless the moment your damage becomes comparable to the nuke you do to the creeps, but you still don't care about that because by the 4th minute it will have paid for itself in gold, and you also get a ton of extra exp.
I still can't wrap my mind around "it's waste on lc" because that's just not true. Having bonus exp and gold from your jungling is never a waste, and there's no opportunity cost that you ditch, like with a midas, etc.
I don't think you understand the economics of this at all. You can say that MIDAS is a waste in terms of opporunity cost and not paying for itself until almost 20 minutes of PERFECT USE. But saying the same thing for Talon is completely wrong because with proper use it will pay for itself in under 5 minutes, and you get bonus gold and exp on top of that. There's no calculation for lvl1 jungle that'd show the talon to be inferior with heroes like naix lycan and lc. Just because hero can do something PRETTY FAST doesn't mean it's not worth doing it faster, especially without a single drawback.
"Why the fuck would you spend 10-15 minutes in the jungle, that's ridiculous. At most you'd spend like 6-7. With talon at least."
I exaggerated, but that still leaves you with lane disadvantages that the opponent could easily exploit if they know what they're doing. Also, it's not that hard to shut down junglers, I have invested in sents/obs to shut down camps and most don't get dewarded.
I'm not saying it's not possible to get away with it, but it's easy for things to fall apart.
^well, yeah, that's true, the only reason I am doing it at all is that I was sent to the jungle so many fucking times, I gave up on lanes completely. If people see a LC pick, they pick greedy as fuck so I don't get a lane and am forced to jungle. Well, ok, from now on I am a JUNGLER^TM, and I don't give a fuck about lanes, I will get my blink and lvl 6 and try to do something then, but if the game's already lost, well, tough luck, I am taught that LC is a jungler, and so it shall be. Both in Normal and High skill people'll force you to jungle, so why the fuck not, I still manage to have 60% winrate with that approach, if I were to play at like 5k obviously it would not be as successful, so let's go all yolo and get bad habits.
I'm curious. How fast do you get your blink?
Also, "Both in Normal and High skill people'll force you to jungle, so why the fuck not" yep, I feel you.
then get real. it's not an exploit, it won't be fixed until maybe 1 year in the future when they decide to rework the hero. bad teammates which delayed the game and made you lose aren't an exploit either
tbh i wudnt ever get blink first item on legion in low level games it relies on team-mates far too much
"I'm curious. How fast do you get your blink?"
Anywhere between 6 and 8 minutes, depending on whether I go help some lane (with the heal) a bit and whether I get a bounty rune at the start, if I do I get my lvl 6 at like 5 minutes flat, because I get level 2 when I kill the large creep and I get my iron talon before 0:30, so I can contribute much faster, even before the blink, nobody expects it anyway. The greatest difference between ordinary jungling and getting the iron talon is the speed at which you can kill the large creep in the large camp, if you're killing small/medium camps it's just not worth it, you want to get it so you can kill the large camp every minute, along with at least one medium camp.
"tbh i wudnt ever get blink first item on legion in low level games it relies on team-mates far too much"
You always watch the situation on the map before purchasing the item, if the teammates are completely incompetent I go for treads medallion or blademail or anything that'll help me get the first few duels on my own, if I anticipate I will have to catch people I also max my Q but remain pretty low in the jungle for a while. You always have to think what's the first thing you're getting, if my jungling is interrupted or I get ganked I just get treads and then try to farm up my next item depending on the picks, while still being in vicinity of fights/skirmishes/ people pushing so I might score a duel, but generally medallion seems to be my go-to "behind" item lately because it's only 1200 gold and the armor reduction is huge at early levels. Some games I went around with naked blademail because huskar and antimage on their team were getting farmed, I baited both into jumping me, so I got free duels from that and then got boots, blink, etc. It's not hard to be smarter than your opponents in low level games, so you should abuse mind games as much as possible anyway.
"imo talon is only efficient in first 3 minutes"
Again, you don't understand the efficiency if that's what you're saying. Pays for itself, gives you bonus gold and exp. That's about it. Even if you sell it right away when you get your blink/whatever you're making, it was still worth it because you would not get such timing for that item without it.
"Pays for itself, gives you bonus gold and exp . "
wat
If you use it right, you kill more creeps in the same time, compared to how many you'd kill without it. The same way, a quelling blade effectively gives you more gold and exp if you're jungling, Iron Talon just gives you more. It's also not really all about doing damage, obviously the DPS increase is nice, but actually it's all about removing the big creep first, which is literally the only thing Jungle Doom has to it, without it it does not work, well, now you can burst down the large creep with naix, lc, lycan, etc. No iron talon = can't do large camp early, iron talon = go hard camp at level 1 and kill it every minute afterwards while also farming other camps. That's the difference. In the end you get more gold and exp because hard camps are just more efficient, and talon's nuke scales with target's HP, nuking hellbear smasher removes 380hp.
u all call urself legion expert with idiotic high skill match plaY? oh comeon , high or normal skill players shouldnt exist in thia world , they sucks
From my experience i get blink within 7 minutes with Iron thingy, then i roam tell my mates to follow me on duels with mic and ez games
@svenboy
its not bonus xp/gold.
its the same with qb if u can stack the camp anyway u just clear the camp faster but theres no advantage or watsoever
"its not bonus xp/gold."
No, but you end up with more experience and more gold for the same amount of time spent in the jungle.
"its the same with qb if u can stack the camp anyway"
No, it is not because you can't kill a stacked hard camp at level 2, and even if you could you need less time to kill every single camp you attack, giving you an effective increase in damage dealt and the number of creeps killed. And quelling blade does not let you throw a 380 pure damage nuke onto a creep every 14 seconds, HOW CAN IT IN ANY WAY BE THE SAME.
"u just clear the camp faster but theres no advantage or watsoever"
Well, if you are going to clear the camp and just stand in the fucking place like a retard, then no, there's no advantage whatsoever. But if you are not brain damaged (and reading those comments made me reconsider that), you'll realize that you can in fact kill more creeps, and higher level creeps, in less time.
I literally can't believe that I'm arguing whether a farming item improves your farm rate if you use it correctly. It seems to me that you think you're going to farm the same two camps you'd farm if you had the classical starting item build, but the reality is, you end up killing more hard camps, and more medium camps as well because you can kill creeps faster. I can't believe I am trying to explain this, it looks so stupidly simple, the idea of using it to jungle LC occured to me as soon as I read the update log, and as soon as I tried it, it felt and worked exactly as I had imagined it would.
^ i need my mom so i can farm faster mate i dont need some 500 gold item to delay my core item
not reading all these text but u make it seem like ure not getting qb on jungle legion (which you are) and its probably going to be kept in an inventory for ages so its its really value honestly the recipe cost is only 125 and rop is free armor for u aswell.
talon is mega mega dumb for ursa tho (unless im mistaken and qb increases swipes dmg)
talon ursa is shit because fury swipes don't get multiplied and quell doesn't even work on rosh. And your main goal is to farm morbid mask and suicide ASAP anyway so why bother spending extra gold on some shite.
Per favore Accedi per inviare commenti.
Lifestealer gets lvl 11 on 12 min mark
Legion farms so fast now
I'm thinking it's better than having 2 supports for the first time